Paranormal Hotspot in the Columbia River Gorge with James Szubski

James Szubski, owner of a store in the Columbia River Gorge, shares his experiences with paranormal phenomena in the area. The gorge, known for its rugged wilderness and unique electromagnetic environment, is a hotspot for UFO sightings, Sasquatch encounters, and other paranormal activity. Szubski and his team have collected over 350 reports from ordinary people who have had extraordinary experiences. The reports include sightings of glowing orbs, UFOs, and an elusive creature called the click-a-tat ape cat. The electromagnetic environment and geological history of the area may contribute to the heightened paranormal activity. 

In this conversation, James Szubski discusses the existence of a mysterious creature known as the Cliquetet Ape Cat in Washington state. He explains that this creature is believed to be a large black panther-like cat that escaped from a secret government animal testing laboratory near the Hanford Nuclear Site. Szubski shares reports of encounters with the creature, including its enormous size and unusual features such as a flattened or hairless face. He also discusses the possibility of a Jaguar Sentinel program and the presence of government bases and strange military activity in the area. Szubski offers tours and can be contacted through Margees Outdoor Store.

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#ParanormalGorge, #GorgeMysteries, #UFOsOverWashington, #SasquatchSightings, #ElectroMystic, #GeoMysteries, #CliquetetMystery, #BlackPantherWA, #HanfordSecrets, #JaguarSentinel, #GovtLabsUnveiled, #MilitaryMysteries, #EnormousEncounters, #FacelessBeast

Transcript

Right away, people started coming in and telling us amazing stories about their experiences in the wilderness areas.

We were hearing Sasquatch stories and UFO stories, ghost stories and things even weirder than that.

So I was intrigued, and I decided to lean into it.

And we put up a big sign in the window that said, File Paranormal Reports Here.

And I gave the staff very special instructions.

I said, everyone who comes in, we will treat with the utmost respect and dignity.

And we will hear out their story.

We won't inject what we believe they saw into their story.

We'll just take in the data and see where it goes.

generation X Paranormal.

Well, hey, everybody, welcome back.

Hey, everybody.

This is generation X Paranormal, I'm Logan.

And I'm Nicole.

Man, season three has been amazing so far.

Yes, it has.

You know, two was great, one was great, but we have just, there has been some amazing guests and some amazing shows, and we hope you guys are enjoying it too.

Today's not any different.

No.

We have, you know, typically, you know, the last few seasons, we've done a lot of, well, I mean, one episode is usually one topic, you know, and it just kind of varies, not all of them, but most of them.

And today we're talking about a hotspot.

Yes.

And when I say hotspot, we're talking, this is a nuclear hotspot.

No pun intended.

But anyway, we're going to be, we're going to be talking to James Szubski, and he is a very fascinating individual.

And in fact, let's, let's learn a little bit about James.

What can you tell me about him?

So James Szubski is the chief operating officer of Margie's Outdoor Store located deep within the Columbia River Gorge in Washington State.

In 2022, his store initiated a paranormal reporting program, which has now received well over 100 reports of strange activity in the gorge area.

James is a former volunteer search and rescue EMT, a wildland firefighter, a mountain guide, and a highly decorated US.

Army infantry veteran.

He earned a degree in communications from the Evergreen State College and has enjoyed a decades long career in that field, working for companies like Wizards of the Coast, the makers of Dungeons and Dragons, and Magic the Gathering.

He currently volunteers his time as the leader of the Cliquetet Ape Cat Research Team.

Say that three times fast.

I can't.

That's why I'm glad you said it, because I would have just stumbled all over that.

But no, this is going to be great.

I can't wait to talk to him.

Let's talk to James.

Let's talk to him.

Well, hey, James, how are you doing?

Great to see you.

I'm doing wonderful.

Awesome.

Yeah, we're real excited to talk to you because we've had.

Okay.

So we've done the UFOs, we've done goes, we've done pretty much everything that's paranormal.

And typically we don't really have something that's unique to what you're going to bring us.

We don't typically have a certified bonafide hotspot, right?

Where you get kind of like a mix of all of them, the biggest smorgasbord of paranormal you can get.

But so yeah, we're pretty excited to talk to you about that.

But kind of before we do that, can you kind of give our audience a really 30,000 foot view about yourself and kind of how this all kicked off?

Sure.

Yeah.

So I have a store located in the Columbia River Gorge.

The Columbia River is the boundary between southern Washington and northern Oregon states.

And so my wife and I inherited these stores three years ago.

My mother-in-law had a number of businesses, and I've got a pretty extensive background in outdoor adventuring.

And so we sort of modified one of the businesses we inherited to be an outdoor adventure store.

And right away, people started coming in and telling us amazing stories about their experiences in the wilderness areas.

We were hearing Sasquatch stories and UFO stories, ghost stories, and things even weirder than that.

So I was intrigued, and I decided to lean into it.

And we put up a big sign in the window that said, File Paranormal Reports Here.

And I gave the staff very special instructions.

I said, everyone who comes in, we will treat with the utmost respect and dignity, and we will hear out their story.

We won't inject what we believe they saw into their story.

We'll just take in the data and see where it goes.

So that was, so we took stewardship of the stores almost three and a half years ago, and we started the program a little more than two and a half years ago.

We have now over 350 reports, and it's all centered here in the Columbia River Gorge area.

And like I said, the array of things that are happening here is kind of off the charts.

It's really clear that this is one of the most active paranormal hotspots in all of North America.

And there's a couple of theories about why that might be, but I need to sort of orient people to what the Gorge is like.

So the Columbia River is the largest river in North and South America that flows into the Pacific Ocean, and it flows directly through the Cascade Mountains.

Cascade Mountains extend from Southern British Columbia all the way to Northern California, completely encompassing the states of Oregon and Washington.

Just for a sense of scope and scale, these Cascade Mountains are some of the most rugged, mysterious and dangerous wilderness areas in the world.

And the area that we're talking about is equal to the ten smallest states in the United States combined.

So it is a vast, vast area.

The gorge itself is 80 miles long, and you can go from sea level at the river to 3,000 feet in less than half a mile.

And so we've got these great mountains that form.

Within 35 miles of my store, there are three strata volcanoes over 10,000 feet.

So we've got Mount St.

Helens, which famously erupted in the 1980s.

You've got Mount Adams, which has been a UFO hotspot since America has been talking about UFOs.

And you've got Mount Hood, which is a huge Sasquatch hotspot.

And the mountains form a rain shadow.

So the west half of the gorge is like a deep brooding mysterious Pacific Northwest rainforest with thick forests and hidden rivers and waterfalls.

In fact, on the Oregon side alone, there are over 90 waterfalls here, and some of them are over 600 feet tall.

And then on the east side of the mountains, it's this beautiful, austere, and almost spiritual desert.

And so we've got sage and desert mesas with flat tops and a very arid landscape.

And this area is one of the most archeologically significant areas in all of North America because of the Columbia River, Native Americans for tens of thousands of years have been congregating here.

And so you've got this really interesting combination.

So prior to doing this, when I was a teenager, I joined the army and I was an infantry soldier with the 199th Special battalion, highly decorated.

And then I was a wild and force firefighter for a little while, a mountain guide, and more recently a nationally registered search and rescue EMT.

And so I am, I know the wilderness well, I love it.

I really enjoy being out in these rugged areas.

And the gorge is sort of like a paradise for a guy like me.

I mean, there's rock climbing, mountaineering, hiking, windsurfing, paragliding, whitewater rafting.

I mean, you name it, it really is like the coolest open world map from any video game you've ever seen.

Very cool.

And the place is stunningly beautiful.

We have the gorge is sort of lined with these basalt cliffs.

And the basalt is forms like these hexagonal pillars.

Sort of like the, what do they call it?

The giant's causeway over in England.

Those giant hexagonal pillars.

Well, the geology, the geologic history of this area may contribute to why we have so much paranormal activity.

And that's a whole story I can get into if you folks are interested in it.

But we have one of the most unique electromagnetic environments anywhere in the world.

And it's a geologic story that spans millions and millions of years.

But what it results in is that when you look at the government issued navigation maps of the area, there are bright pink letters on them warning you that your magnetic compass readings will be off when you're in the gorge.

And that really is a big clue as to why we have so much stuff going on out here.

Right.

And I know that I'm somewhat familiar with the area.

I'm originally a West Coast brat, by the way.

And, incidentally, you're in good company.

I'm an ex-army medic, and I was also in the Navy firefighting and everything else.

Oh, wow.

congratulations.

Brothers from another mother.

And she's been there for almost all of it, so she's earned her stripes too.

But I know there's a good amount, I think, of courts out there as well, and there's some other geological, I guess, for lack of better words, formations that I know do tend to potentially resonate, and whether it's frequency-based or recording-based or whatever have you, I know there's quite a bit of study done on that.

And I also know that that particular area, if I'm remembering this correctly, is the first quote unquote UFO sighting by the pilot in that Cascade Mountains.

And his name is...

Kenneth Arnold, June 1947.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So a lot like the Hudson Valley, I see that area, like you said, it is...

I mean, you're right.

There is no end to the different amount of activity out there.

So that's...

Yeah.

It's been, I mean, such a joyful experience for me.

I can't even tell you.

So, like I said, we've had more than 350 reports in under three years.

And...

Wow.

That kind of maths out to every two or three days a new Scooby-Doo Mystery walks through our door.

And it is totally awesome.

I mean, I had no idea how satisfying and enjoyable and emotionally connective this would be, you know, when we started it.

I really didn't know where it was going to.

And now we've got folks calling us up asking if we'd be willing to be in a TV show.

And so, you know, it's been this really interesting evolution.

I think the smartest thing that we did was that we decided to treat everyone with respect and, you know, take in these stories and take these people seriously.

I can't tell you how many times people have said, you know, I told one other person this, they laughed at me and I haven't spoken about it in 20 years.

And, you know, when I think about that, you know, guys like us who are, have a lifetime of service and you feel a compulsion to help those in need.

And when I see all of these good ordinary people having extraordinary experiences, and then they have nowhere to turn to, they don't have, they can't go to the police, they can't go to the scientific community.

Sometimes even their own friends and neighbors have trouble believing them.

I mean, you can't blame them.

I mean, people just want to normalize the situation.

You don't need, you know, giant black cats running around or what have you.

Right.

Yeah, we've definitely found that quite a bit because kind of what I think the uniqueness of what we do as opposed to maybe some of the other shows, which are all great, by the way, we're fans of all the paranormal shows, but we try to kind of approach a lot of this stuff from a very middle of the road, grounded kind of perspective.

And Nicole tell you, I started this pretty much skeptical of about everything.

I'm kind of the in-house skeptic, if you will.

Between the two of us.

Yeah, between the two of us.

But the one thing I've always, I've mentioned, and I know our audience are probably gonna be like, dude, shut up already.

But nobody does this expecting any grandeur.

Most of the people that we talk to, when you first start getting, first of all, if you had an experience, you're already in that mindset of, no one's gonna believe me, I'm gonna have all this ridicule and everything else.

So yeah, you're right, you stomach it, you eat it, you don't say anything, maybe you tell one person and they laugh at you like you said and then game over.

And that's the one thing that I hope our show and some of the guests that we have on here kind of dispels a lot of that so that, hey, if it's the one thing on this planet that every walk of life, it doesn't matter religion, race, any of that stuff, everybody gets touched by the paranormal in some way, shape or form.

And it's just, I think that's a real disservice that we have done to ourselves.

And I think it's a Western culture thing for the most part.

I don't know that that's the same necessarily in every culture, but I do know we beat the heck out of each other out here.

So, yeah, yeah.

And, you know, sometimes I'll be in a conversation with somebody and they'll get something off their chest.

And there's a cathartic moment for them and there's a real emotional connection.

And I had no idea that that was going to be part of what happened here.

You know, I thought we're going to hear some cool stories and I might be able to go out and do some adventuring, investigating it.

But really, it's these connections with people.

It's been really wonderful.

And, you know, it's gotten to the point where, you know, obviously we're a business, so we advertise, you know, that people should come and file paranormal reports at our store.

And so I'm recognized in the community.

So the gorge has got probably, I don't know, maybe a dozen small towns.

The one I live in has got 1,500 people in it.

The total population of the gorge is around 80,000.

And so it's not, it's still sort of got a very small town, rural feel to it.

And, you know, I get recognized at restaurants, and people come up to me and talk to me about what they've experienced from the grocery store at the post office.

And I just love that there are these sort of impromptu connections and I get to hear the most astonishing stories.

And, you know, we knew at the beginning that there may be some people who have genuine mental disturbances and we would encounter them.

And, you know, oftentimes it's clear that you're, that's the type of person you're talking to.

But it is a vanishingly small percentage.

I was sort of surprised at just how small it was.

You know, I'm guessing less than half a percent of the 300 people that I've talked to have, you know, genuinely, clearly had something, a mental disturbance.

And, but most of the folks are just ordinary people who have had one or two extraordinary encounters and they don't know how to process that or fit that into their worldview.

We also knew that there'd be a few people coming in and just having fun and, you know, telling a tall tale.

And I thought, you know, I'm not a scientific outfit.

It's no harm, no foul.

We love interacting with folks.

And so, but again, vanishingly small.

I mean, like, and they're pretty obvious about it.

There's a couple of ways people can fill out reports.

We've got paper forms in the store.

We have an online form at margeesoutdoorstore.com.

And, you know, sometimes people will communicate with us through Facebook or social media.

But most times, people just want to verbally tell us their story.

And it's very rare, like a report that comes back signed by Seymour Butts or something like that.

And you're like, oh, this guy's having fun.

I've seen a few of those.

But what's amazing to me is how many regular people have these extraordinary experiences.

And part of the way that you know that they are not making it up is the stories are oftentimes like really boring or really short, like I was driving my ATV and a giant black cat jumped across the trail and I never saw it again.

Like that's the whole report.

And so that's not something you're going to make a mini series out of or something that you're looking for glory or you think you're getting a book deal out of.

This is like this weird thing happened to me and I need someone to talk to about it.

And so, and then of course the staff loves it.

It's their favorite part of the job.

Sure.

We screen people.

They're like, oh, that's, that's, I'm so looking forward to it.

And we put together a Paranormal information Center in the store.

And we've got this 11 foot tall Sasquatch replica that people come in and pet.

And we've got hair samples that people have brought in and some footprint castings and a big map of the gorge.

In fact, I'll put that up on the screen right now.

Yeah, go ahead.

Let's take a quick look here.

So can you see what's on the screen there?

Yep, sure can.

Yeah, so this is a hand drawn map that I made of the gorge myself.

I am a huge Dungeons and Dragons nerd and a Tolkien fan.

And so being able to draw a map of this area was a real joy for me.

But you can kind of see how there's the big river that runs right through the middle.

And then you've got this dividing line of the cascades.

Everything to the west is rainforest, everything to the east is desert.

And my store sort of sits right in the middle.

And this is the area where really all these reports are coming from.

And like I said, we've got tons of UFO reports from Mount Adams area.

In fact, for decades, there's been a place called East City Ranch.

Stands for enlightened contact with extraterrestrial intelligence.

How cool.

And eastcity.org.

And people have been going out to Jim Gilliland's property out there for decades and watched UFOs fly around Mount Adams.

Now, you had mentioned the Kenneth Arnold incident.

So that happened June of 1947.

Private pilot flying from the west side of Washington State to the east side.

He was flying a little bit north of here.

And he encountered nine-disc shaped craft flying at extraordinary speeds and maneuvering ways that aircraft at the time couldn't maneuver.

And they flew right past him from the north to the south.

And they were headed right towards Mount Adams here.

So from the very beginning of America's fascination with flying saucers and UFOs, Mount Adams has been a part of that story.

And it continues to this day.

We have tons and tons of reports.

In fact, I think I might even have a picture of...

So here's a glowing orb picture.

I took this picture myself.

This is at the base of Underwood Mountain.

And this is about three miles west of my store.

And so what you're looking at here is...

I was taking pictures of this strange beam of light, in fact.

This is a picture without it.

And so this beam of light had caught my attention.

And then there's this shot where this orb appears.

Now, we know that this orb is not headlights, because down here, in this section, there's already vehicles on the roads with headlights.

And so we know that...

Here's a truck and here's a car.

It's definitely not headlights.

Too big for that.

It's not a lens flare, because lens flares are typically perfectly circular.

They don't have information inside of them.

Typically don't have a halo like this around them.

And so it's definitely not swamp gas.

That's not realistic for the area.

So this is just one example of a phenomenon that we have here in the gorge.

We get a lot of stories of these glowing orbs.

Some would call them UAPs.

What's interesting is that on this same mountain, so that was the base of the mountain, this picture was sent to me.

And so we're looking at...

Let me pull it up on the screen so you can see it.

Okay.

So what we're looking at is a tic-tac shaped object.

This picture was taken from 12 miles away, north of my store.

And you can see that there are no wings or rotors on it.

We did some enhancement on it to take a look at it.

And this object seems to match what the Navy fighter jet cams are picking up when they're looking at those tic-tac shaped UFOs.

Right.

Also, on the same mountain, Underwood Mountain, we've had reports of people visually seeing orbs and other glowing lights.

Real quick, sorry, I'm going to cut you off.

With that first picture, I think, did you watch that orb move or was it stationary?

So, at that particular time, I did not see the orb with my naked eye.

Now, there are other times when my wife and I have co-witnessed orbs in that same area.

And we have at least 30 or 40 reports of other people witnessing glowing lights, flying orbs in the air.

One, in fact, was driving on the Oregon side of the river, and they saw this thing zipping down above the water, and then it dove into the water and they could see its light underwater.

So, it was a transmedium craft.

The witness in that case said that near him on the road was a police officer, and they were both looking at each other like, are you seeing what I'm seeing?

And so, we have a lot of reports like that.

And just last week, a guy was up north of here, and he was in sort of a clear-cut area near Mount Adams, and on his phone, he could see an orb, and he was walking towards it and tracking it on his phone.

He couldn't see it visually with his own eyes, but he could see it through the lens of his camera.

Right.

And what I find, you know, really interesting about all this is that we have this phenomenon out here, you know, maybe it's a good time to talk a little bit about the electromagnetic environment, how it formed and how it may be contributing to some of this phenomenon.

Sure.

So, when the Gorge was 20, the river's been here for 20 million years.

So think about a current of energy that's been flowing through this area for literally longer than the hills have been here.

And it was this beautiful, broad, 60-mile-wide river valley.

The mountains hadn't grown up yet.

Then, 17 million years ago, an enormous fissure opened in the earth at the Washington-Idaho border.

And immense volumes of thin, soupy lava started spewing out of this thing.

They estimate that if you took all the lava that came out of this, and you spread it out evenly over the United States, it would bury the entire lower 48 states in 60 feet of lava.

That is how much lava came out of this thing.

Now, it erupted in, they believe, over 300 different events.

And so here in the gorge, each time that basalt lava flowed down the ancient Columbia River Valley, it created a layer.

And then as it cooled, all of the magnetic material in it oriented towards the Earth's magnetic North Pole, and then got locked in place, and then the stone hardened, and that was its magnetic signature.

A thousand years, ten thousand years, a hundred thousand years pass, another flow comes through.

Now, the Earth's magnetic North Pole has wandered.

The last hundred years, the pole has wandered 700 miles.

And so when that next layer comes in, its magnetic material orients to the new North Pole, and gets locked in place.

So in some places in the Gorge, there's 800 feet of cliffs, and the layers can be anywhere from 10 to 60 feet, deep.

And each one of these layers has got a unique magnetic signature to it, right?

Each one is different because it cooled and locked in place at a different time.

So that contributes to the weirdness of our electromagnetic environment.

Well then, three million years ago, Cascade Mountains started rising up, and all of those layers started buckling and folding.

So now they're sort of bent over on top of each other.

As this magma comes up from underneath, it's introducing new magnetic forces.

Then we had, 15,000 years ago, the greatest flood known to man.

So they called them Missoula Floods.

Those folks who listened to Graham Hancock and Randall Carlson probably know a little bit something about this.

There was basically this enormous glacial lake.

It was stopped by a glacial dam.

This is during the Ice Age, 10,000 years ago.

Well that glacial dam fails, they believe, and in a day, basically the content of the Great Lakes poured out across Washington State and got caught up at the eastern edge of the gorge, a place called Wallula Gap.

As this water is flooding across Washington State, it is 300 feet deep and it is carving these astonishing geological features called the channeled scablakes.

Look, it backed up at this Wallula Gap and then it started rocketing down the gorge.

Where my store is, that water was 900 feet deep.

And it was carrying with it boulders and trees and icebergs and every living thing in the river valley.

And it completely scoured away all of the topsoil.

Anything living was sort of just ripped off the walls and carried into the Pacific Ocean.

So what that did was it took all those magnetic layers and exposed them like a live wire.

So you've got this really crazy magnetic sandwich that's been buckled and folded and twisted with like really powerful geologic forces.

And then it's all laid bare by these epic, truly biblical floods that came washing through here 10,000 years ago, 15,000 years ago, depending on which of the stories you're following.

And so, and then on top of that, we have installed 14 hydroelectric dams on the Columbia.

And so this river produces 44% of all the hydroelectric power in the United States.

And then it's transported throughout the gorge and away from the gorge by these high power, you know, power lines.

So all that combines to create this really bizarre, nuanced electromagnetic environment.

It's unlike any place in the world.

For sure.

And the reason why this is meaningful is that back in this 80s and 90s, a guy named Dr.

Michael Persinger, up at Laurentide University in ontario, Canada, was doing studies about what magnetic fields, how they impacted the human brain and human brain perception.

And he created this thing.

It was a motorcycle helmet that had solenoids on it, and they could cycle magnetic fields through it with a computer program.

And they were able to consistently and in a replicatable way, generate paranormal experiences within the mind of the people wearing the helmet.

Most frequently, they would have a sensed presence.

They would believe that there was something else there with them.

A few of his subjects claimed to have bet and see God when they were under the influence of this device.

And so in the media, it became known as the God Helmet.

But he was also able to do things.

Like switch fear on and off by pressing a button, and create a whole host of paranormal perceptions, right?

Things typically associated with either ghosts or UFOs, or different sightings or things like that.

So the reason why that works is that in our brains, there are literally billions of magnetite crystals.

This is a molecule consisting of three iron atoms and four oxygen atoms, and it creates these very stable crystals.

And they are housed within these magnetosomes, and they are basically sit on the surface of brain cells, and they are magnetically receptive.

And so when you encounter magnetic fields, these magnetosomes filled with magnetite crystals, actually torque within their sheaths, and the brain can perceive those.

They think this is how, like, navigating animals are able to, you know, figure out which way is north, and how to get, you know, thousands of miles from wherever they are.

But it's shown that human beings are also sensitive to this too as well.

And so some people have natural navigational senses, but other people sense when they're in weird magnetic fields, you just feel off or whatever.

Right.

It happens all the time.

So fascinating stuff.

And what really made me connect the dots on this was that over there on Underwood Mountain where we had the orb at the base and the UFO at the top, we've also had reports of folks who have seen orbs with their naked eyes.

One gentleman said he saw two orbs, sort of they were red and they were leapfrogging and sort of dancing in the sky above his property.

They descended down to property level.

And he says they seem to turn into two glowing eyes that began approaching him.

And then he said, and I quote, like a switch was thrown, I was washed with terror.

And I thought, hmm, that's exactly the same kind of effect that Dr.

Persinger was able to achieve with his device.

Yeah.

And so this, a witness ran into his house and grabbed his shotgun.

And by the time he came back out, the phenomenon had ended.

And so what I think is happening out here is that, our unique electromagnetic environment is impacting these physical magnetism structures in our brains and allowing us to perceive things that we don't normally perceive.

I don't think that they're localized hallucinations because we have photographic evidence, we have footprints, we have hair samples, we have a lot of physical evidence, and we also have co-witnessed events.

I've been a part of some of these myself.

And so you really can't say that this is a localized personal hallucination.

There's something different happening here that has a reality to it beyond a single person's brain.

And so it's a, again, it's the leading theory as to why things here in the gorge are a little different.

I think an easy way to conceptualize this is imagine that you've got a radio and it's always set on a talk radio station.

And so you think that, okay, this is reality, there's always talk radio, people talking, that's what you get.

And then you make a minute adjustment to electromagnetic receiver and suddenly it's classical music that you're experiencing.

Or it could be rock and roll music, country music.

Now, the important thing to understand is that those radio signals are present in the environment at all times.

They're always there.

It's just that you're currently not calibrated to perceive them.

And so I think what happens here is between our weird electromagnetic environment, whatever is happening with the space weather and the sun and how that's impacting the magnetosphere, it may even have to do with things you've eaten.

I believe that calcium and phosphorus, for instance, can impact how your magnetosomes are their reception.

And so, a combination of those kind of things, hard to replicate, hard to even recognize if you're not looking for them, sort of are automatically adjusting people's tuners out here.

And suddenly, they're seeing things like triangular-shaped UFOs or glowing orbs or Sasquatch or even this thing we call the Cliquetet ape kit.

Yeah, I definitely want to get in that.

I'll tell you.

It's the frequency change.

Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah, and I'll tell you what, I've eaten a burrito that's made me see all kinds of things.

So usually nothing good.

Well, you know, it's kind of what Nicole touched on, and we talked to a lot of folks where they say, you know, frequency and even even like with Mike Ricksecker, where we're talking about, we talked about that stack time theory, you know, and even Simeon Hynden said that exactly kind of what you said, James, where you've got just because you're not listening to that station doesn't mean it's not broadcasting.

So it's just just allowing us to say it's just allowing it.

And I think you're right.

I think a lot of people can maybe not necessarily at their own leisure choose which what what they're going to tune into.

Sometimes it's it's kind of forced upon you.

But but no, that's well, I think some people it's easier for them to make that switch for whatever reason.

Right.

And so imagine how frustrating would be if you said, Oh, I heard classical music here.

You've got to come check it out.

And you bring all your friends out there and you can hear it and they can't hear it.

And you're like, exactly.

I must have been crazy.

But no, that's not true.

What it really was is that the conditions aren't the same.

And so your perception is different.

And so it's I would imagine there's got to be like portals and stuff out there.

Oh, yeah.

We have had people directly reporting portals in the area.

Yeah.

Yeah.

One incredible story.

A gentleman was driving through the desert side and he saw it looked like he thought it might have been like a lighted sign to an Indian casino.

Well, he got close to it and nope, it was a full on portal.

And he sort of parked his car in front of it.

And he observed a dark metallic sphere come up out of this portal and into our world and then rocket down the gorge.

He was even able to capture a picture of it on his Nokia phone.

And so this is back in the day.

So we've had numerous reports of people experiencing what they claimed to be portals.

And it's again, one of those kind of things when you hear it, it's just like, what are you saying?

Like, how could this possibly be?

But again, it's, you know, a component of several of the reports that we received here in the store.

Yeah, that's fascinating.

Okay, so we're at that.

We've got a store and you guys are getting these amazing reports and things are just sort of, and I don't know if you covered this or not, but you probably didn't initially start this with that in mind.

But as this starts happening, where, okay, so let's just roll our sleeds up.

Let's go ahead and get into it.

Tell me about some of the, and I know you touched a little bit with the orb there.

What are they seeing other than what we've talked about out there?

I know there's quite a bit.

So, Sasquatch sightings are very, very common.

One of the things that we noticed when we first got here is it seemed like everyone who lives down here either has seen one or knows someone who has.

Sure.

And I was like, hmm, that's interesting.

But the one that has really captured my imagination is a creature we call the Cliquetet ape cat.

And we've had well over 100 reports of an enormous black panther-like creature prowling the canyons and forests of the gorge area.

And so in all of the reports, everyone describes a very muscular cat, feline cat, large, so at least as big as a cougar with black fur and a long black tail.

So just to start off, mainstream science does not recognize any populations of black cats living in Washington state.

The only black cats that live in North America are black jaguars, but their range is a thousand miles south of here.

And they also are adamant that there is no such thing as a black cougar.

And so we of course have cougars out here.

And what the mainstream science says is that cougars normally have a tawny sort of tannish color fur.

When they're melanin express and they get darker, they turn to a reddish color.

But black or dark brown is never on the menu.

And so yet we have, like I said, well over 100 reports of enormous black cats crawling around the area.

So there's a mismatch there.

Now about half of those reports say the creature is enormous in size.

And so four to five feet tall at the shoulder.

So tigers are 36 inches tall at the shoulder.

For a cat to be four to five feet tall at the shoulder, there is no cat living on earth today that science recognizes as that big.

There is one animal in the fossil record.

It's called a panthera atrox.

It was a North American Ice Age lion.

And so this creature reigned all over North America, including Washington state 10,000 years ago.

And it absolutely lived alongside human beings.

There is no reason, like it is 100% physically and genetically possible for cat to be this big.

We have a replica skull of it in the store.

And this thing is enormous, especially when you compare it to a normal cougar.

But again, only half of the reports describe this enormous size.

And oftentimes those reports are like, well, the cat jumped into the road in front of my car.

I was driving a Honda Civic, and it was as tall as my car.

And that's a four and a half foot tall car.

Another gentleman was driving his Jeep.

He said, the creature's back was as tall as the hood of my Jeep.

And so you're getting a sense that very large creature.

And like I said, the only thing that it matches is this Panther Aatrox.

God, that's crazy.

You know, so I drive a Rubicon, and I'm thinking about the top of my Jeep.

Yeah, that's huge.

It's up there.

It's not like it's, you know, that's no small feat, no pun intended.

That's a big freaking beast.

And the reports are reliable.

We've had very senior law enforcement officials tell me that they've seen this cat.

The reports go back to 1968.

That's the earliest report that we have.

And there are a number of reports that say that people have seen it with cubs.

So, younglings.

Oh, man.

It seems as though we have a reproducing population out here.

Now, the reason why it's called the Cliquetet Ape Cat, well, my store is located in Cliquetet County, and the first reports we had were from Cliquetet.

In fact, the second report was in Cliquetet Canyon.

And then the ape cat comes because of a handful of the reports.

And in fact, the first report we have received said that the creature has a face that looks like a monkey.

And when I first heard that, I thought, I was having to really, like, how does it even work?

And so of course, as we get in reports, if it's one or two reports, like I think, okay, that could be an outlier.

It's an interesting data point.

You don't dismiss it, but it's like, all right, it may have been misreported.

I may not have understood the report properly, but the first guy was really, really clear.

It had a face that looked like a monkey, and he went into detail in that.

And so more reports will come in and it'll sort of fade into the background as one of its features.

And then another report will come in.

A woman who was a crew chief for a firefighting team, a wildland firefighting team, said the whole crew saw it up between St.

Helens and Adams.

And they saw it on the first night of a three-day deployment, and they wondered what the hell they were gonna do if it showed up in their camp.

Yeah, no kidding.

Yeah, I mean, nobody's ready for that.

I mean, that's the main question in my head right now is like, if I saw something like that, I don't think I could go back out into the forest.

Now, I would spoil myself for a group and come up with a different plan.

So what's interesting is that, so we're talking the panther atrox is a creature that weighed between 900 and 1300 pounds, was eight foot long from the snout to the rump.

And that is matching the reports that we're getting.

Interestingly, that panther atrox was sexually dimorphic, which means that the males and females are different sizes.

Females are much smaller than the males.

And if that's true, you would expect half of the reports to have smaller size cats and have them to have the enormous size cats.

This fire crew chief helped me understand this monkey face thing a little better.

She said that the face looked flattened.

So think about the difference between a German shepherd and a pug dog.

Both dogs, but one's got a more flattened face.

Conceivably, you could say that under certain lighting conditions, you might perceive that to look like a monkey.

Now, I will tell you that there was one report, and this is a one-off outlier.

And this one, three weeks ago we heard, woman was south of the gorge.

So, not what I would consider the territory that I'm focused on.

About 150 miles south of the gorge.

And her and her sister and her sister's boyfriend saw a large cat-like creature drinking out of a puddle.

They came around a corner of a trail.

This was a Hawaiian trail.

Black fur, cat-like body, long black tail, drinking out of a puddle, looked up at them, had yellow eyes, an angry hairless face.

So, a leather face, like a gorilla.

And then, and this is the part that I'm still scratching my head about, it got up on its hind legs and ran away on two feet.

Now, that sounds like maybe a different kind of phenomenon than what we're talking about.

I really can't say for sure.

Again, it's a one-off report without supporting data.

It's an interesting note, but it is certainly, that is less than 1% of our reports say that.

Most of them just describe a really big cat, sometimes with a flattened face, sometimes with a hairless face.

Right.

Now, so there is Native American legends that seem to imply, in fact, there are petroglyphs in the area that look like cats, that may be what we're describing.

But it turns out that the most rational explanation is that this creature may have escaped from an nuclear animal testing laboratory just upriver from us.

Okay.

So, everyone is familiar with the Manhattan Project, where they created the bomb.

And everyone knows about Los Alamos, where we had Heisenberg down there developing the bomb with the engineers.

But in Washington state, the US government evicted everyone living on a 600 square mile area along the Columbia River.

It's called the Hanford Nuclear Site.

And it was here that they built the world's first industrial scale nuclear reactor.

And the goal was to create plutonium for the nuclear weapons program.

And so this was a top secret site and an enormous undertaking.

And it was a complete secret during World War II.

And so they were basically allies are terrified that the Nazis are going to unlock the secrets of the atom before we do.

Of course, the bomb is obvious, one of the big prizes out of that.

But the Nazis are super interested in creating super soldiers and super animals.

In fact, they even brought back an extinct Ice Age creature called an Orox and populated a forest in Poland with them.

Now, an Orox is a gigantic hyper-aggressive bull-like creature.

Think of like a buffalo on steroids.

But meaner and bigger and hornier.

And so the Nazis thought that this was a worthy thing to hunt.

And so they brought them back from the basically extinction.

And so the Allies are looking at this and they know that the Nazis are trying to create super animals and super soldiers.

They know in the 1940s that radiation can induce mutations, but they really don't know to what extent or how that worked.

And so when they, from day one, the Hanford site had an animal testing laboratory there.

And the guy that they chose to run this was a guy named Dr.

Lorne Donaldson from the University of Washington.

And his only academic achievement before receiving this posting was that he had actually created a super animal himself.

He had created what's called the Donaldson Super Trout.

It is a trout that is eight times larger and stronger than a normal trout.

It reaches sexual maturity in half the time.

It can swim in fresh water and salt water.

It's super strong and super survivable.

And it is still a living fish species today.

But through retrobreeding and a number of other weird science methodologies, he actually created this fish.

And he's the guy that they put in charge of the animal testing laboratory.

So they are producing plutonium.

They set off the Trinity test.

It's that successful.

Then the Hiroshima gets decimated.

And then the Nagasaki bomb was also Hanford plutonium.

And so we win the war.

And they announce Hanford as a public thing.

And then they noticed that the Russians are scooping up Nazi scientists.

So we shut back down Hanford.

It becomes a top secret site again.

And we start recruiting Nazi scientists through the paperclip, operation paperclip.

And so as all this is going on, Donaldson winds up going out to the South Pacific.

And he's part of those like the Kini Atoll Test and the Disasterous Castle Bravo Test, the Gage Drive, the whole Godzilla mythology.

Yeah.

And he stays in contact with the Hanford site.

And the Hanford site starts to grow.

A new guy gets a sign there.

His name is Bill Baer.

And so he runs this facility basically all throughout the Cold War.

And he's in contact with Donaldson.

And under Baer, that facility grows to where they can house 1,000 large animals there at a time.

Most of what they're testing is things like if a cow eats radioactive grass or grass with radioactive fallout on it, can you still drink its milk?

Can you eat its meat?

Can you utilize its leather?

Like those are some important questions for a country trying to figure out what being in the nuclear age looks like.

Absolutely.

But I've listened to now three oral histories.

Wilbert died in 2013, but he left behind some oral histories of his time there.

In all three of those interviews, he describes how they were conducting bizarre radiation experiments on apex predators.

Those creatures, they were unable to contain them.

They escaped and they were unable to recapture them.

He very explicitly talks about the time they had a whole pack, I think, of 30 alligators.

He even holds up a picture of the device they used to irradiate the alligators with an alligator in the device.

He describes how they were experimenting on these creatures, and one night, six of these experimental apex predators outsmarted the scientists and they escaped into the Columbia River.

This is a historical fact.

There are newspaper reports about this incident when it occurred.

It is 100% confirmed.

For sure, they were irradiating apex predators and they escaped.

Then they had an army hunting team, and every day for six months from July to January, they went out and tried to hunt down these alligators that were swimming around in the Columbia River, which had public access.

You can't stop a gator from swimming all the way down to the ocean if you wanted to.

And so after six months, they had caught and killed four of them, and they decided that the other two probably wouldn't survive the winter, so they called off the hunt.

Well, Bear in these interviews describes that even into the 80s, he was getting calls from Fish and Wildlife guys asking him if he knew anything about alligators in the Columbia, and he would always just say no one hang up on him.

And then he laughs about it in the interview, like it was a hilarious thing to do.

So why would they be experimenting on alligators at Hanford?

They're certainly not a food source, they're not a part of the American diet or part of our economy in any kind of major way.

And to answer that question, I need to tell you a little bit about dolphins.

So since 1958, the US government has used dolphins to guard some of our most sensitive nuclear sites.

The reason why is one of the biggest threats is Soviet scuba diver coming in, probably at night wearing night vision goggles.

On sonar, you can't tell the difference between a Soviet diver and a tuna fish, or a sea lion, or something like that.

So you're in a real quandary.

You've got some of the most powerful weapons in the world vulnerable to waterborne attack.

How do you deal with it?

Well, your technology is failing you, but you can train a smart animal to recognize that threat and deal with it.

So what they would do is they'd take this barbed harpoon-like apparatus and attach it to the snout of the dolphin.

They'd train the dolphin to ram into the diver, embedding that harpoon into his flesh.

A balloon would inflate, it would bring the diver to the surface, and then the atomic security forces would come and scoop that guy up, and then interrogate him or at least look at his equipment and try to determine where he's from.

So in the 80s, a quarter of the US nuclear stockpile was guarded by dolphins.

It's a very effective program.

It's working great.

Hanford is our most important nuclear site.

They called it the Apocalypse Factory because they had nine nuclear reactors running there, and they created enough plutonium to fuel 60,000 nuclear weapons.

So above all other sites in America, this one is the most important one to protect.

Excuse me.

And so they would have loved to bring dolphins in here to protect, because there's 45 miles of the river flows there.

That's 90 miles of river coastline.

You got to guard.

How the heck are you going to do that?

You'd love to bring in dolphins, but they only operate in saltwater.

This is freshwater.

So you start asking yourself some questions.

If you're a zealous Cold warrior, the first question you ask is, what's the world's best riverine hunter?

You might try alligators, but you would also go for the king of river hunting, which is the jaguar.

So jaguars can hold their breath for 15 minutes.

They can swim a kilometer in the open ocean.

Pound for pound, they're the strongest of the big cats.

They can kill alligators with a single bite to the back of the head.

They have night vision that's six times better than a human being, and they always instinctively drag their prey to shore.

So if you've got a checklist and you're asking yourself, what's the best base creature to start with to modify and train and turn into another sentinel creature like the dolphins, jaguars are going to be at the top of your list, especially in this particular environment.

And so what we think happened was they had a jaguar sentinel program.

They may have been cross-breeding it.

They may have been doing other genetic experiments on it, modifying its size and perhaps even its facial features.

Just like the gators, they couldn't contain those creatures.

They outsmarted the scientists.

They escaped into the wilderness.

And if you look at the location of Hanford, if you go north, east or south of there, you head deeper into the barren desert.

If you head west into Cliquetet County, there's tons of available food sources and habitat areas.

And so as crazy as it sounds, the most logical explanation for a population of giant black panther creatures living in Washington state is that it escaped from a secret government animal testing laboratory just a river from us.

Yeah.

And what's amazing is the only reason why I started exploring this avenue of possibility was that I read an article that during the cleanup of Hanford, it's been closed since the 1980s, since the Cold War ended.

They've been doing this cleanup and buried in the desert, they found a railroad boxcar filled with the half-burned carcasses of radioactive animals.

The whole thing is filled with them.

And I was like, what's that about?

And my first thought was that maybe these creatures had mutated from being too close to the contamination in that area.

But as I did more research, it seemed like an actual program makes more sense as to what they were doing out there.

Yeah, it does make sense, actually.

Yeah, that's, I mean, simple math.

I mean, it makes sense, too.

That, which is interesting because I know that they're, this isn't the only, I guess, for lack of better words, cryptid that has that potential background, the Michigan Dogman is one that we'd kind of cover, too, where they think that they, yeah, they think they were also created as some sort of super soldier.

Which, by the way, for our audience, if you don't, I guess I shouldn't say if you don't believe, but if you question it, you know, you don't have to look too far.

I mean, if you guys are watching like Captain America and stuff like that, and the stories that have come up from that, they get that story from somewhere.

Exactly.

There's some lore behind that, that's based in some, you know, ultra supernatural reality.

So it's, yeah, that is amazing.

And that was all in that area.

Yeah, yeah, just that river from us.

That's just wild.

Yeah.

You know, I think, yeah, you know, and even look at like, and I know this is terrible and I'm just throwing pulp culture, pop culture out there.

But you remember Wolverine supposedly was in that area where he got all his adamantium and all that.

I know it's ridiculous, but seriously, there's some truth in it.

Well, there is, like, we hear all these stories and we're like, oh, that movie and that movie.

Yeah.

Like that's where they got the ideas for these movies.

Well, I'll tell you, we have a whole category of reports that our government agents, the people encounter in the forest.

So we've had probably 20 reports of people that are hiking.

It is obviously vast wilderness, recreational opportunities out here.

And there's a lot of back roads, dirt roads, logging roads, that kind of stuff.

And oftentimes, I shouldn't say often, there are several reports where people have encountered men in uniform carrying rifles, saying that you can't enter normally a public access area.

And some people have been, they came sort of to the edge of a canyon where there's a glowing light in the canyon.

And two men carrying rifles claiming to be from the power company said that they can't go over there, that there's some type of power emergency and that the people had to leave.

Just about three weeks ago, we heard people that were driving up by Mount Adams.

They encountered people wearing black, or excuse me, gray cargo pants, black t-shirts with semi-automatic sidearms that looked more like mercenaries than soldiers that were guarding a gate to an access road, not allowing people to go in there.

So again, I can't say for sure what's going on there.

It just is fascinating to me that we have a number of those types of reports to this day still going on.

For those folks who are doubting this, there's a very famous incident at the Hanford site called the Green Run, where they intentionally took the filters off the stacks of the reactors and they basically irradiate the local population without their knowledge or consent.

Then for decades, they track their health and wellness of these people and also the livestock in the area.

They explicitly describe how they would go out and distract farmers while one guy was pretending to be like feed salesman or something like that, and one guy would distract the farmer and the other guy would be gathering tissue samples.

To this day, we have evidence of cattle mutilations in the area.

These are reported in the local newspapers with the local sheriffs quoted in them.

They have parts of their body surgically removed.

All the blood is drained from them.

Scavengers won't touch the bodies, like the coyotes and raccoons and vultures and stuff like that.

So, to this day, we still have these strange effects.

There are a number of people come into the store, locals, who say that there are government bases underground near Mount Adams.

And they see advanced military aircraft, black choppers that don't make any sound flying into these areas.

Yeah.

And, you know, again, from my perspective, you know, those, these reports that we receive, if I have witnessed them myself, I can only say this is what's been reported.

Sure.

Right.

But we look for patterns in the data.

And now that we have that much data, we're really beginning to see, yep, there are some strangely consistent things that are going on out here.

And so, yeah, it's a super fascinating, super interesting place to bomb around and try to figure out what the heck is going on.

I'm sure.

And it's not the first time I've heard that stuff that, well, the Skinwalker Ranch, it's the same type of stuff.

And even out in Arizona, when I was in Sedona, I heard some reports about underground bases.

Things are, you know, people were seeing things out in the desert.

So, yeah, it all matches up.

James, I got to ask you a question.

How the heck do you and your wife go out and just have like a normal night out?

Because if it were me, I would have like a GoPro, a, you know, all these different types of ghost hunting equipment or anything like that.

It kind of makes like a normal outing a little bit askewed.

Yeah.

Well, let me show you something here.

I'm going to share my screen and show you.

I have a vehicle.

We call it the cryptid.

And there it is.

Oh, cool.

And so this thing is rigged up with cameras and a lot of gear on the inside.

I think there's five cameras on it altogether.

Remote control spotlights, there's a drone in there.

We've got comms equipment.

And two or three times a week, instead of driving straight home, I head out into the forests and follow up on investigations of stuff.

And so it is a super fun and interesting thing.

This is an area right here called Brokeleg Boroughs.

It is an ancient lava bed.

We've had compasses and cell phones don't work properly here.

But the area, we've had Bigfoot footprints spotted out there.

This is a cave in the area.

Nice.

Again, these strange one-off cryptids.

But yeah, that Brokeleg Boroughs area, very strange, missing people.

I even had a time displacement experience out there, time and spatial displacement experience out there.

This is a petroglyph from the desert side that seems to depict one of these cats that we're talking about.

Interesting that there is wavy water lines underneath it.

No, you're absolutely right.

He sure does.

The Native American legends talk about, I guess, these mishepishu that look like a combination between a black panther and a face, both the face of a man.

And so interesting stuff.

Yeah, but just lots of really crazy.

This is that alligator device, the irradiation device for the alligators.

Okay.

Okay.

And you can just see what that's like.

But yeah, this is an AI rendition of what that cat face might have looked like.

Okay.

I got to admit this.

I will tell you this and I don't normally use this type of verbiage, but I'm a combat veteran.

I've been through some stuff, but that would scare the shit out of me.

I don't think I could sleep again if I came anywhere near something like that.

Yeah.

No.

What's interesting is that we've had no real hostile encounters with this cat.

And in fact, it seems completely unafraid of humans.

And to me, that, well, but cougars are terrified of humans.

Like cougars will abandon a fresh kill at just the sound of human voices.

And if you think about, if they were creating a sentinel creature, they would want that creature comfortable around humans.

It wouldn't attack humans on sight, it would attack humans on command.

And so, I mean, again, totally circumstantial, no way to verify it, but it seems to fit the fact pattern that we're talking about.

There is one guy who this cat crawled into his goat pen.

He shot it with a 22, which is against a thousand pound creature.

Yeah.

You're just gonna piss it off.

It made this, what do you call it?

Horrific demon-like noise.

Wow.

There's a film crew.

Like I said, some TV folks are trying to put together a show and so they interviewed this guy.

And they said, well, make the sound, make the sound.

And he said, ma'am, that sound is the sound of a demon and it's not in me.

But if you open the gates of hell and have a demon make that sound, I'll let you know if it's what I heard.

I was like, holy crap.

That's awesome.

Wow.

But that's like the as hostile as the encounters have ever been.

And that's comforting.

And so again, I don't know what to make of it.

I don't want to say this thing is perfectly safe.

But it's certainly, I mean, there's a woman who said she was camping with her family on the Oregon side of the river.

She got out to go pee in the middle of the night.

And there was this big black cat standing on a fallen log.

That's kind of interesting.

And then she said, and then it hopped off the log and started coming towards me.

So I pitch it off and jump back in the tent.

That's harder for a woman.

I'm glad I'm protected by a microscopically thin sheet of cloth.

It gets a 1,000 pound cat.

Yeah.

Good job.

Secure yourself.

But then she showed me a picture of five of her family members standing on this log and she said, yep, that cat was as long as all those people standing next to each other.

I was like, geez Louise.

How do you, yeah.

I'm hoping, I'm thinking that I'm going to offer a reward for people who can bring me high quality video footage of it.

I've seen some crappy, like, lob squashy video footage of it.

And so I'm certain that the creature is out there.

And people have told me they've taken pictures of it.

But I think that we need some kind of incentive to get people out or so.

Later this summer, I'm thinking about offering a couple thousand dollars for people who can bring in some footage.

For sure.

That makes perfect sense.

And if I ever get our Jeep into overland mode, we're going to drive up there and we're going to have some fun with that.

And that's an F Cruiser, is that right?

It's an FJ.

FJ Cruiser, yeah.

Yeah, we'll have to have some fun though.

That'd be a lot of, that'd be some good times.

We're going to have to make it up there.

Well, I'm telling you, tomorrow, there's some other podcasters, podcasting teams, and I'm taking them on a tour of the gorge tomorrow.

So we'll be out in all the cool places.

They said, oh, we're going to be out there.

I said, well, give me a call.

So if you guys are serious about coming out here, I offer tours to people I've done interviews with.

Hey, that sounds great.

Yeah, I'd love it.

Yeah, we'd love that.

I've never been to the Pacific Northwest.

Oh, it's beautiful.

Yeah.

Well, James, you know, I know our audience is going to know a lot more than this because there is so much more to know.

Where can they work?

obviously, if they're in your area, they can come by your store.

But how else can they get ahold of you?

So the best place to start is margeesoutdoor.com.

So Margees Outdoor or Margees Outdoor Store, both take you to the same place.

And you can see some of the paranormal stuff we got up there and a paranormal reporting forms are up there.

We're also on Facebook, Margees Outdoor Store and Instagram and YouTube.

So those are the best places to look for us.

Great.

Awesome.

And I'm getting ready to start a new podcast.

So we're not up yet, but Chronicles of the Enchanted Gorge is what the podcast title is gonna be.

Okay.

I like that.

Yeah, that's good.

We'll definitely check that out.

Enchanted Gorge, Enchanted Gorge.

Okay, said it three times, now we're gonna summon.

Yeah, let's build in.

It's in there.

James Szubski, thank you so much for joining us.

It's amazing.

Hopefully, we can have you back, and maybe we'll stop by your show too.

Yeah, we've just scratched the surface.

There's so much amazing stuff out here.

Awesome.

Well, thanks again, and we'll look forward to talking to you soon.

It was my pleasure.

Thank you so much for having me.

I'm telling you, if I run into a cat like that, Well, we've got, what is the Ozark Howler here?

Yes.

But this is way more terrifying.

No, that is, wow.

Yeah.

I mean, what a great, I mean, what he's doing, let alone, I know, I've got to say, I've got to commend James for what him and his family started at this store because people are going to, on their vacations or whatever, out hiking and they go into the store to buy whatever, and they're like, oh, you can submit.

Yeah, that's a perfect way.

Yeah, and also, because most people are just going to keep that to themselves and go home or, you know what I mean?

Yeah.

Especially if you're on one of those family vacations, and guys, we've all been on one where you're just like, all right, it's kind of a boring somewhat, especially the kids, not us, I'm talking about when you're a kid.

I was like, thanks.

Everyone we go on is a lot of fun.

But if you're a kid or some of you guys go into this store, and all of a sudden, there's this paranormal hotspot store and everything, that's a lot of fricking fun.

But yeah, he was great to talk to, so much information.

And guys, if you're in that area, I highly suggest reaching out to him, and especially going to that store.

obviously, it's a little bit out of the way, but I mean, heck, maybe.

Not if you're going that way.

True, not if you're going that way, but heck, maybe make a way there.

Yeah.

But yeah, just...

And I gotta say, like, with the paranormal activity, it makes sense.

You know, everything he was explaining, as far as the earth is concerned, makes sense.

It is perfectly set up for paranormal activity.

Yep.

But aside from that, all this government stuff...

Nice, nice pivot.

I want to say something different.

Really, really makes me angry.

Yeah.

For one, not only poisoning everything, for two, working on these defenseless animals, and now they've created whatever this is.

Now, thankfully, it doesn't seem like there's a lot of reports of, you know, aggressiveness and people getting hurt.

However, he did say missing people.

But when you're out in vast wilderness like that, stuff like that happens.

Oh, yeah.

People get lost and they're never found.

But that could also go with the paranormal activity.

But I don't know.

But then you've got like the cat, the thing that I picked up on, he was talking about the Native Americans and they described it as a cat with a man face.

But if you think about it, if it's a cat with an ape-like face, we have similar characteristics.

Yeah.

That would make sense.

It sure would.

And that would have nothing to do with them testing and making hybrid.

I know.

Animal, radioactive, whatever's.

Yeah.

Right?

Yeah, for sure.

That's the best way and the nicest way I can say it.

I was going to-

About how I feel about that whole thing.

Yeah.

Let me tell you guys, before we started getting to the end, we paused for just a second because she needed to figure out how wide of a birth she needed before she just unloaded.

So-

Well, I don't like animal cruelty.

No, of course not.

I don't like poisoning of our earth.

I'm very pro take care of things, take care of your body, all those things.

So when I hear of things like this happening, which I know they happen, I don't think it's a conspiracy theory at all.

We know this, I mean, it is documented that this happened.

Yeah.

They like to glean over it like it.

Yes, they do.

But our movies, like you mentioned, Captain America, they take that from reality, and they spin it into a movie so then people think it's always a conspiracy theory, but that is not the truth.

No.

If you go back and listen to our Michigan Dogmen podcast, there is where they think that the one guy got pulled into a room and they said, well, I'm not going to give it away.

You got to go listen to the episode.

Or listen or whatever you want to do.

But I think that's what the Michigan Dogman is.

I think it's our government messing with stuff.

Yeah.

Well, we mess with stuff.

What do you guys think?

Let us know.

I mean, comments are there.

Also if you guys are listening to this on the podcast, thank you for listening, but you might want to check out the video because there was some-

For this one, yeah, at least.

Yeah, for this one, because there were some visuals that you really probably want to see.

Some great visuals, yeah.

And you may be a little lost going out, well, I didn't see anything.

And thank you to James for providing us.

Yeah, that's great.

Really gave you kind of a sense of what he was talking about.

Absolutely.

But other than that, guys, thanks again for hanging out with us for another great show and see you next week.

See you next week.