UFOs - Who Are They? with Leslie and Stephen Shaw

Prepare for an out-of-this-world experience in this riveting episode of Generation X Paranormal! Co-hosts Logan and Nicole sit down with UFO experiencers and authors Leslie and Stephen Shaw to delve into their extraordinary encounters with extraterrestrial beings and the secrets they reveal in their groundbreaking book, Who They Are: And What They're Up To.

Join us as the Shaws share their firsthand UFO experiences, thought-provoking insights, and the compelling story behind their book that sheds light on humanity's relationship with these enigmatic visitors. Whether you're a skeptic or a believer, this episode will challenge your perception of the unknown!

Transcript

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Now, let's get back to the show.

This week on Generation X Paranormal.

Researching the abduction phenomenon.

You know, at the time, the theories were that the aliens are just interested in us.

They're for scientific curiosity.

They're taking a few samples and from a cross section of humanity, no big deal.

But we found out that really wasn't what was happening.

What happens instead is that they find a family that meets their genetic, their criteria genetically.

And so they'll then take those family members again and again and again through their lives.

And then they'll start taking their kids and their grandkids.

And so we realized that that was what was going on with Stephen's family because they had been targeted for many, many generations.

Well, hey, everybody, welcome back.

Hey, everybody.

It's Generation X Paranormal, I'm Logan.

And I'm Nicole.

You know, we are, so at the time of this recording, it is December, right?

And we've just went through a few days of just ridiculous cold.

And I know you guys may have, by this time, it'll been way past, but there was these huge snow storms and all these other things.

Today, it was warm enough, it's like 60s, and I'm in shorts and a T-shirt.

Well, that's the Midwest for you.

Oh man, it's just crazy.

But what's not crazy is our guest.

We have a good show, we always do, you know, because we try to bring you guys the best.

But, you know, we have a, we have, I guess people who are just really, they have a theory, and they've got some data to back it.

Very valid scientific data.

Very valid scientific data.

But who we're going to talk to is Leslie and Stephen Shaw.

What can you tell us about them?

So Leslie and Stephen Shaw have been studying the UFO phenomenon for decades.

They are both UFO witnesses, and Stephen's psychic family were victims of the alien abduction phenomenon for at least four generations.

That is a lot of time.

They just recently published a book called Who They Are and What They're Up To.

And they have toured California, giving readings, lectures and being vendors at events.

They've also participated in panels as UFO experts.

Okay.

Recently, they had a new documentary that's been released on Amazon and YouTube called Who They Are, and we did watch it last night.

Yeah, it was good.

Pretty interesting.

And I'm going to read you the thing on the back of the book that tells you.

Okay.

You know what it's about.

Like a four.

That way we'll get people interested in the episode.

Okay.

Yeah.

It says UFOs.

Millions of witnesses have seen them.

Thousands have been taken by them and hundreds of books describe them.

But here for the first time, there is a book that delves into the hardest questions concerning them.

Who are flying them?

Where are they coming from?

And all the important whys.

Why are they here?

Why are they seen so often?

Why are they preying on our people and our livestock?

And why is our government in league with them?

This book addresses these questions and explores the motivation for their agenda and their bizarre breeding program.

Interesting.

So look forward to the answers to those questions.

All right.

Well, let's bring them on.

Let's talk to Stephen and Leslie.

Well, hey, Leslie.

Hey, Stephen.

How are you guys doing?

Great.

Thank you for having us.

Hello.

Hey.

Yeah, we're excited.

We're talking a little bit before.

It's been a while that we've had you guys scheduled and we're really excited to have you on.

You know, we've got we've got pretty good breadth of knowledge, I think, probably between the four of us.

And we'll get kind of into the, I don't know, the nitty gritty, as you like to say, of what we're going to be here to talk about, which is your book and the documentary.

But, yeah, if you kind of give our audience kind of a little bit of a breakdown of who you guys are, kind of what your background was before we get started.

Sure.

I'm a semi-retired journalist.

And we live in Southern California, just east of LA out in the desert of LA.

Okay.

And we're both UFO witnesses.

And Stephen's family were victims of the abduction phenomenon.

And Stephen's a retired acupuncturist and a Tai Chi master.

And he's currently an orchestral musician.

Oh, wow.

Awesome.

Yes.

Well, he hasn't played this year with them, but up until last year, he was playing with the Joshua Tree Philharmonic Orchestra.

No, that's awesome.

Yeah, that's about it.

Well, that's good.

Yeah, I'm from the West Coast.

I was kind of born in Arizona and raised in California, so more of the San Diego area, but I'm pretty familiar more or less of kind of where you guys are.

I don't know if you guys are close to like 29 Palms or somewhere around there.

An hour's away.

Okay.

We're northeast of Palm Springs, just a hair.

It's in a place called Sky Valley.

It's very remote.

It's weird.

It's only 15 minutes from town, but it's very dark out here and just scatter of houses every few acres.

Yeah, that's good stuff.

I mean, it's not like you're at the Salton Sea.

It's just you're kind of out there, you know, kind of in the room.

We're not down that far.

No, we're in a community.

Oh, that's cool.

That's really cool.

That's awesome.

Well, so, yeah, I think let's kind of just jump into it.

Let's start first with the book.

You know, I know you guys have a ton of experience.

We get that.

What prompted you to go ahead and put paper to pen, so to speak?

Well, Stephen, you know, he's been researching it for many years.

And, you know, I'm a dutiful wife.

I believed him when he told me, and then he'd seen, you know, all these things.

And, but you know, when you don't see it yourself, there's always that tiny little kernel of doubt.

And, but then I was 45 years old, and I finally saw my first.

And then it was like I slammed 100% into belief, and that's when I said, hey, we really should get around to writing that book we've been talking about.

And that's when we started really researching in earnest, you know, just reading and anything we could find on the subject.

Got it.

Now, Stephen, did you guys have, did you kind of have to hammer it in quite a few times for her to really kind of, to believe you for a while before she had her own experience?

No, no, I just came up once in a while.

It's just, you know, in my family, it was just kind of a normal thing.

You see, the thing is that I want to clarify here.

I'm the one who figured out that it was aliens.

I was brought up in a family that said it was a spiritual guide or spirit guide called O'Glegley, that had been with the family for about four generations.

So that I was brought up in a family from the age of three, that I just assumed it was something that was unique to us.

And it turns out it wasn't.

Interesting.

Very interesting.

Yeah.

When we started researching the abduction phenomenon, at the time, the theories were that the aliens are just interested in us, they're for scientific curiosity, they're taking a few samples and from a cross-section of humanity, no big deal.

But we found out that really wasn't what was happening.

What happens instead is that they find a family that meets their genetic...

What am I trying to say?

Criteria.

Criteria.

Thank you.

That was the word I was searching for.

Their criteria where it meets their criteria genetically.

And so they'll then take those family members again and again and again through their lives.

And then they'll start taking their kids and their grandkids.

And so we realized that that was what was going on with Stephen's family, because they had been targeted for many, many generations.

Right.

Let me be specific too.

Okay.

Not necessarily my grandparents or my grandmother or my great grandparents.

I have no knowledge about them having missing time.

Okay.

All I just know is about my brother, myself and possibly my uncle, Douglas.

I know about that.

I know about what they were seeing.

And it was always the same thing.

A tall entity, six and a half feet tall, skinny, sometimes would be black, sometimes be black wearing a dark, wearing a red fez.

One time it was a tall gray alien.

In my case, it was a blue white entity.

Okay, but always the same thing.

Always the same.

When we see going back four generations, the family, the women in the family going back this far were automatic writers.

You know, where they go into a trance and they just start writing.

And the person they were communicating with, his name was O'Glegley, and they thought of him as the family spirit guide.

But we discovered later that O'Glegley is actually a tall gray, six and a half foot tall gray alien.

So that's when we finally put it all together with what the family was experiencing.

Because it seemed, it was very strange.

It followed the family from country to country to country, from house to house to house.

It wasn't like a haunting where it was fixed to a location or something like that.

And so we surmise that the family has been in communication with this tall gray, going all the way back that many generations at least.

Something I'm curious to know, something we've heard a lot about is the O-negative blood factor, which I'm sure, is any member of your family, do you guys have the O-negative blood?

No, it's the R-H-negative, the more important.

Yeah.

We know from data that four out of 10 abductees have R-H-negative blood.

Whether it be O, B, A, B, or A.

Stephen himself doesn't have, he's A-positive, but, and we don't know about some of the previous generations, but I happen to have R-H-negative, but I don't feel like I've ever been taken.

I haven't, I don't have any inkling of it.

But, you know, they take a lot of Basque people, and Basque have the highest incident of R-H-negative blood, and we're not sure if they're after Basques, therefore taking more R-H-negative, or they're after R-H-negative and therefore taking more Basques.

But it amounts to the same thing.

And four out of ten abductees have green eyes.

Really?

And about nine out of ten abductees are Caucasian.

Wow.

Or some version of Caucasian, like the Basque.

Yeah.

I didn't know about the green eyes.

That's the first time I've heard that.

Yeah, that's interesting.

And Stephen doesn't have green eyes or RH negative.

But one of the other factors is that we've known this for many years, that they're interested in psychic people.

And because it seemed like every time I interviewed an abduction victim, they were a psychic healer or they were a medium or something like that.

Right?

And Stephen's family are incredibly psychic.

And then the, I'm sorry, I try and have thought it's a little fuzzy tonight.

That's okay.

Happens to me all the time.

But then, oh yes, Luis Elizondo, his new book called Imminent, he said that they did MRI scans of the brains of abductees, and they determined that they have the same kind of brains that people with ESP have.

So, it's been proven, what we've known for years has finally been proven medically.

So, they're after Caucasian, psychic, green-eyed, orange-negative people.

Yeah.

Wow.

They have a type.

Yeah, they do.

Okay.

So, tell us about the journey through writing the book.

Obviously, I know for a lot of different people, it can be really cathartic, make different things come out, and especially in research.

What did you discover through that journey?

What was one of the biggest takeaways that you got from it?

Well, when we first started doing our research in earnest, it seemed that, again, the theories weren't really jiving with the data that I was coming up with.

Like the theory at the time was that the tall gray ones are coming from this star system, and the tall white ones are from this one, and the little grays are from over here.

But I started discovering that it doesn't seem like they're really coming here from distant star systems.

We don't think that that's the case.

For one thing, grays sometimes work with the Nordics, and the Nordics sometimes work with the Reptiloids, and they're on the same ships together frequently.

And so, I think, I realized that they're not coming here from distant star systems.

And also, they were being seen way too often.

We know that there's about 10,000 reported sightings every year worldwide.

And we think the reporting is at about 10%.

So really, there are like 100,000 sightings minimum per year, every year, going back maybe hundreds of years even.

And also, I kept seeing report after report after report, that they were coming up out of the earth somehow.

They were launching their ships from out of lakes and out of the ocean, and out of the volcanoes, and out of the sides of mountains, and ridges, and mesas.

And I kept thinking, well, why are they coming up out of earth rather than down from space?

And then we heard about Admiral Byrd's data.

Most people have heard about the diary, but where he goes under the ice sheet and meets with people, men named the Ariani, he says they look Nordic.

So we think he was meeting with the Nordic versions of the aliens that are indistinguishable from humans.

They look like tall Scandinavian humans.

And in that diary, he describes meeting them and they say that, welcome to the underworld of the Ariani.

And we normally have, we try and have nothing to do with you surface barbarians and your barbaric wars, but we have to intervene now because you've learned to crack the atom, and this is a power you should not be playing with, right?

So, and this was in 1947 that they're saying this to him.

Pretty busy here.

And this is about when they started following our nukes all over the place.

They station their ships right outside our nuclear silos, our bases, our the Malmstrom, the Malmstrom incident, and then also outside of military bases that had nuclear capabilities.

So it's not that we're just believing birds account entirely, but it's backed up by other evidence too.

For one thing, there's a giant, there's a whistleblower that came forward.

In Antarctica, there's this giant no-fly zone where people are not allowed to fly over.

And my question is, why?

If it's a giant ice war, you know, play, who cares why we fly over?

But so they're very strict about this no-fly zone, and one pilot broke it because of a medical emergency.

And when he was flying over, he spotted an enormous hole in the ice sheet.

He and his crew, it wasn't just him.

Big enough where you could certainly fly a plane into it.

And we think that, so that kind of backs up Bird's testimony that he flew his plane down into this ice world.

Planes were much smaller back in 1942.

Big difference.

And then, so most people, like I say, I've heard about the diary, but there's this Russian documentary that was aired on Russian television in 1986 that was based on a Soviet intelligence report.

And in it, they talk about what really happened to Admiral Bird when he was on Operation Highjump at the South Pole.

Supposedly, Hitler was showing this bizarre interest in Antarctica in the late 30s, and he set enormous amounts of equipment to the continent rather inexplicably.

Nobody could figure out why, right?

And then one of the U-boat captains that had been combing the Queen Magdalen Coast was quoted in the paper saying, I have found a paradise under the ice for Mein Führer and the homeland.

And so after the war, the US surmised that there might be a Nazi base under the ice sheet.

And when Admiral Bird was, we believe was tasked with the destruction of this base.

But when they got down there with his armada of ships, they were attacked by UFOs, flying saucers that came up out of the ocean and shot some ray at the ships.

They ended up sinking one of the destroyers and they downed half of Bird's aircraft, carrier-based aircraft, and then plunged back into the ocean and disappeared.

And then Operation Highjump, as far as we know, they turned tail after, they were supposed to be down there six months, they turned tail and ran back to South America in just two months.

That is for sure known.

And Bird was quoted in the press as saying, we now, America, if there's another war, America has a potential enemy that can fly from pole to pole at incredible speed.

And then he went back to Washington and was muzzled the rest of his life.

He never spoke another word except this diary that was discovered posthumously after in his effects by his son.

Right, I remember that, yep.

Right, so we surmise that this is when the diary thing happened though.

His ships were attacked and I don't think he wanted to go back to Washington and say, I don't know who attacked us, you know, so he got in one of his ships with a crew and flew over the ice sheet, discovered this giant hole and flew down into it and the meeting happened.

So once we applied the Admiral Byrd's data to our UFO data, everything started making sense.

Like, why do they want Caucasians?

They are Caucasians.

You know, why would they care about Caucasian DNA if they were from Arcturus or the Pleiades, right?

Maybe they'd be interested in humans and want that cross section, but thereafter, like I said, almost entirely is Caucasian.

Also, it's why would they take cows' blood?

You know, why do they care about taking cows' blood and cows' sexual organs if they're from a distant star system?

But if they're from here and they utilize cattle as a food source themselves, then maybe their their herds are becoming non-viable, right?

And this is also explains why they're seen so often.

They live here.

And also why we have been dealing with them for thousands of years.

Because the phenomenon is ever present now, but also goes back thousands of years.

You know, we have all kinds of evidence for their activities going back a really long time.

So that's when we realize that what we're dealing with is a breakaway branch of humanity and not aliens as such at all.

Now, I know that we've talked to a few people like Preston Dennett and a few other people that have kind of at least said a little bit about underwater bases.

I think that's something that we've...

Yeah, I've definitely heard that before.

I think if you're wanting to go to a planet, taking that it's Earth, you know, out of the equation.

But if you're going to go to a planet or stay at a planet, or if you're from there and you needed a hiding place, the ocean would be the best place to go, considering that we know so little about it and it's 75% of what we are.

So that kind of makes a lot of sense for us.

And just kind of being, I guess, full transparency, I'm usually the big skeptic between both of us.

Yeah.

So I guess I kind of want to touch a little bit about the, I guess, the underground, the potential underground living of these creatures.

Now, I know they're human and I know in your documentary, you stated they're us basically.

Yes.

But, and I hope I didn't give anything away, you guys.

No, that's fine.

The book's been out long enough.

There's no spoilers.

We're an open book ourselves at this point.

And I know there's a lot of a lot to be said about the potential of, I like the term that you guys use and you should coin it by the way, if you haven't yet, the, was it interterrestrial?

What was it?

Intraterrestrials instead of extraterrestrials.

Yeah.

I may put that somewhere in our show notes, but I find it interesting.

It is difficult for me to wrap my head around.

I do have to admit I've never been a big fan of the whole Arterians and the Pleiadians and all those sort of things, because I am a very scientific based mind.

The Pleiades is just a gathering of stars that we see collected in one area.

They don't all actually stay in that one area.

Yeah, they're not really next to each other.

Right.

I've never been a big fan of that.

But I'm also one of those people that believe that two things can be true at the same time.

I do love your point about the Rockets.

I thought that was interesting.

That one got me a bit.

I liked that.

That was good.

But I guess I'm just interested if you would bookend the data and the information you have about them living underground.

Yeah.

We think that they went underground to escape the cataclysm that was the younger dry ass comet impact.

Kind of like in that movie, Deep Impact, you know how in the Hollywood version of we're all going to die from an asteroid impact.

Hollywood's version was to send these heroic astronauts into space to blow up the asteroid and save us all.

But Plan B was to sink these deep underground arcs, they call them, in the movie.

And we think that's precisely what happened.

They had enough warning.

Somebody on this planet had advanced enough astronomy.

And so we think people were 13,000 years ago, were more advanced than we give them credit for.

But the evidence of their society was mostly scraped off the surface of the world by the younger Dryas impact, which would have caused 1,000 foot high tsunamis.

And just like I say, scraped most of the evidence off the planet that they were more advanced.

But we still have little dribs and drabs of evidence of this really advanced cultures going back thousands of years that nobody can make sense, right?

Yeah.

Pieces.

Sorry.

So as soon as we realized that that would be a really good reason to go underground, right?

Like, otherwise it's like, why?

If the surface is ice, it's sunny and warm, you know?

And there's some lots of, you can see the sky, there's a lot of pluses.

But when, you know, came Bush, come to shove to survive, then we think they had no qualms about digging in underground.

And so they are 13,000 years ahead of us because everybody left on the surface was shoved back into the Stone Age because the devastation was terrible.

We were reduced to about 10,000 individuals.

There's proof now of in the genetics that show that-

Bottle neck.

Yeah, we dropped to about 10,000 individuals and our entire population has sprouted from those 10,000.

That's why we're so-

we're not very diverse, genetically speaking.

And that's finally been explained why?

Because of this calamity.

And so we think that they went underground to survive the calamity, but then they stayed underground because it shoved us back into an Ice Age.

We were on the way out of an Ice Age 13,000 years ago, right at the tail end.

And then this comet happened and turned right around and shoved us right back into the Ice Age.

For another 1100 years, the climactic upheavals would have been, you know, difficult to even grow crops, say, in the Northern Hemisphere of the world.

Yeah.

And that's pretty evident with a lot of these, you know, global killers, so to speak.

You know, the Earth's crust just is kind of like a blueprint or a thumbprint or a fingerprint, I should say, of all these different things that have happened.

So yeah, that's definitely one of those things that's really easy to kind of prove.

You know, we can go, you know, dig a country mile, as they say, and see, you know, all these different things.

So yeah, that's interesting.

You know, you mentioned in the documentary about kind of the greys being, you know, for lack of better words, they were underground for so long, they didn't get any sun or anything.

But I guess when I have a hard time wrapping my head around, and I'm sure you know a lot more about it, if they are human, I do know that the human physique needs some of that, I guess some of that vitamin D, that sun exposure in order to even survive.

Now, albeit it's probably, it leans a little bit to some of the, I would guess, the technology that they had or have or still garner.

I don't know if that's a word, but you're a journalist, you can totally square me away.

But how do you, I guess how do you rationalize that and how do you explain it to an idiot like me that doesn't maybe get it?

Well, the reason I think that the grays and the Nordics and the reptiloids and the insectoids, all these different types, all of them are perfectly upright walking bipedal hominids.

And on this planet, the only upright walking bipedal hominid that's accepted by science is us.

Even our closest relative, the chimps, are not upright walkers.

So we think rather than that we evolved from the aliens, we think the aliens evolved from us.

That we started with humans and they're upright walkers like we are.

And even the insectoids have the same skeletal structure we have.

So I think that's why we believe that they're a branch of us, especially the Nordics.

But because the greys behave like, almost like automatons, we're not really sure precisely if the Nordics discovered them at some point.

You know, that they're just humans that stayed underground way too long, and you know, and never came back to the surface ever, you know.

Right.

And then the Nordics maybe discovered them and utilized them to create like this slave race that they, where they're working for them.

Because they show zero emotion, and they're never confused or lost.

They're very goal driven, almost like computerized, you know what I mean?

They're telepathic.

And they're telepathic.

Yeah, and there's a lot of people that, like Les Velez and a lot of different people that we spoke to, they've said...

Like drones or little soldiers.

Like drones, little soldiers, and some that are, that they're not really even sentient.

They're kind of just...

Like a robot.

They're just a robot, like you said, so...

Yeah, but not the tall greys.

No.

Yeah, the tall greys are definitely different.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And the Nordics, I would imagine at some point, if they had the technology to do so, probably left.

They didn't have to be underground.

I do know that the Nordics...

Again, I'm a bit of the more skeptic of us, but when I kind of bring it all down into my feeble little head, you know, the Nordics were definitely probably us in some way, shape, or form, whether they left to the cosmos or, you know, kind of as you guys proposed, whether they stayed underground, I do firmly believe that that is most likely an ancestral tie.

They're the teachers that came back to the surface.

Right.

Basically reeducate as barbarians.

Right.

They've been playing God to us for a long time.

Yeah.

They, you know, these, they're like 1200 separate cultures with a flood myth in their ancient lore, pointing to a shared experience of some kind, worldwide shared experience.

But they all start, almost all start the same way, where there's a warning.

God or an emissary of God or a disembodied voice or something, warns the people that a horrible flood is coming.

And they almost all end the same way too, where mankind has devolved into barbarism and in some case, cannibalism.

And it looks like we're on the verge of just dying out, this being wiped out, when a teacher arrives.

Frequently, a Caucasian man that flies in on a platform and lands, like Koukoukan did, or whatever.

But they usually come in pantheons of 12, and they come as gods.

Enoch called them the Watchers, you know, the Osiris and his family.

The ancient Greeks have a pantheon of 12.

The ancient Romans have a pantheon of 12.

The Canaanites and the Babylonians, and they're all supposed to be gods, but they instantly take wives and start breeding with them.

So that's another thing that made us think, okay, if you're having sex and making babies, you can't be anything but a human being, right?

It's pretty hard to refute that.

Yeah, you know, and so at first I thought, well, maybe they're using in vitro fertilization and genetic modification and manipulation, but no.

Does one matter?

I'm reading, they're having sex.

Does one matter?

You have to be human.

Sorry.

You take a tiger and a lion, you get a tigon or a liger, you get mules out of donkeys, you know?

They're basically, they can't reproduce.

So we're looking at something that is us.

Sure.

You take a tiger and like a human, you get Joe Exotic, I guess.

I don't know.

Yeah, and forget him.

Blames a lot.

Yeah, forget him, you know.

And it's funny, you were talking about, you know, humans that walk upright.

I served in the military with a lot of people and surprised they were upright.

But yeah, I forgot I did six years in the military myself.

There you go.

Yeah.

Thanks for your service.

Yeah.

He's a CB.

Yeah, that's all.

Hey, Navy.

Awesome.

Good deal.

Yeah.

Builder, builder.

That's right.

I started as an aviation ordinance man and then when I went in the army, I was a medic.

So I must have really just hated myself.

Thank you for your service.

Well, thank you.

Appreciate that.

So that I find that really, really interesting.

I think that, you know, so what would you be?

What would you be?

What would be your your way of looking at it?

Like two things can be can be correct at the same time.

And I know you talked a little bit about it in the documentary, and we're going to get to that here in just a second.

But so with with visitors or with people that that come from different places, we'll just say.

And that came from extraterrestrial.

And now we're looking at the potential of having the, you know, living underground or being underwater.

Do you believe or do you find or does your data support them talking?

Do you see them together?

Do they do they converse?

Do they confer?

Are they kind of like unified?

Or what do you what do you normally see about that?

Well, it seems like in the case of the Nordics and the small greys, that they're working for them.

They're sort of like workers, you know.

Travis Walton, you know, the Arizona incident was a very famous incident.

The way it happened in the movie was not the actual way it happened.

They Hollywoodized it a bit.

Absolutely.

But he said that he was kind of he was surrounded by the short little greys and they were terrifying him and he was kind of fighting back.

And they receded away.

And then these two humans show up.

And he's thinking, Oh, thank God, I've been rescued.

Because he thought it was the two humans, but it turns out they were the two Nordics.

So these two Nordics had a bunch of these little greys working for him, so to speak, on the kind of doing the dirty work.

And that's why I think when these ships crash, it's almost always the greys that are on them.

Because I don't think the Nordics want to risk their butts and their space crafts that are supersonic, you know, space crafts.

So they send the little greys to do their jobs for them, so to speak.

Yeah.

I think the biggest, I guess, there's a lot of famous ones.

Maybe for some of our audience that maybe isn't as in tune with it, I think one of the more famous accountings of it, whether, you know, whether you believe it or not, was the Dwight D.

Eisenhower incident.

I think that's probably the closest to, I think that most people can confer that we actually spoke with the Nordics one-on-one without the greys.

Yes.

If I remember correctly.

Yes.

I don't think the greys were involved.

The Eisenhower meeting was with the Nordics.

The bird meeting was with the Nordics.

We figure that the Nordics are in charge.

Right.

They're not underwater by the way.

Yeah.

I didn't think that.

That actually makes no sense.

Yeah.

We don't think they have bases on the oceans.

They have exit points.

They don't have bases necessarily.

Right.

Where we think most of the bases that we know of are inside mountains.

These cities where they retreated into a mountain.

And it's a good idea when you think about it.

You're trying to escape a giant tsunami.

Sure.

You don't want to go underground on low ground because after the tsunami, you might have an ocean or a sea on top of you, you know?

And then volcanoes would be a really good way to house a large population quickly.

An extinct volcano has a throat that goes all the way down through the crust of the earth with giant lava tubes that run off of the main throat.

And these lava tubes sometimes open up into huge caverns.

And once the lava drains out, it's already like a pre-existing bunker, you know, or bomb shelter, I say in the documentary because.

And so, for instance, we know the Mount Shasta stories about Lemurians moving into inside Mount Shasta.

And Mount Hayes in Alaska is a known alien base.

Mount Denali has the black pyramid underneath inside of it.

Kailash.

Mount Kailash, yeah, in Tibet, has the Shangri-La, you know, stories about people going underground into a mountain again.

And so I think what's happening is they're launching, it looks like they're coming up out of the ocean because there's a base down there.

But what they're really doing is just taking one of their ships down the lava tubes to where the subterranean and sub-oceanic levels and then just coming up out of it.

Because, you know, they still have the same problems of anybody that was trying to have a base on the ocean floor.

It's the colossal pressure.

And just one malfunction and your base goes, you know, it's just gone.

Right.

So I know that, you know, and for for those, I'm going to deep go deep in my geology classes here.

It would obviously have to be very extinct because you, you know, if there was any kind of volcanic, you know, they would choke from fumes and the heat.

So it makes sense.

They would want to use an extinct tube.

And you're right, they do become very cavernous.

It's funny because even like my hometown of Tucson, Arizona, you got like colossal caverns and stuff like that and or colossal cave and things like that.

So obviously, it would be a great place to sort of be, you know, out of sight, out of mind and also-

And to survive an impact, you know, like we're talking.

They're much more common than you thought too.

We did a whole chapter on that.

Yeah, it's like a Swiss cheese under the earth, you know.

I mean, as far as impacts, they're more common than people think.

Yeah, for sure.

Absolutely, Stephen.

And considering that, you know, it's proven that at one point, our entire planet was nothing but just a big, huge volcanic mass.

So it makes perfect sense that it's, you know, there's a lot of it out there.

And a normal mountain, that's not previously a volcano, that's just from two plates rubbing together.

So there probably wouldn't be that much cavernous room in a normal mountain.

You say that, but there's also the, and it was in your book, too, which I was glad to see that, but the Hopi have legends of their people going underground by the star, and they call them star people.

Right.

And I was glad to see that you put that in the book, because I had heard about that previously.

That's pretty interesting.

There's lots and lots of stories about people who go underground, you know, and it's like, why?

Well, now we know why.

There's a really, really good reason for them to go underground, you know.

For sure.

And so we think they finally, you know, they were underground for however long, and then they kind of took pity on our poor slobs on the surface, and we think they came back to the surface to kind of rule us.

You know what I mean?

The upper echelon of our planet, maybe just them, you know, kind of controlling the rest of us.

Yeah.

Interesting.

It's necessity.

Yeah.

So let's talk about the documentary for a second.

You know, I want to make sure that our audience knows where to see it.

And we're going to put all that stuff in the show notes.

But what started the move to do?

I mean, obviously, the book had been out, but what kind of started the documentary?

What did, I guess, basically, were you approached or was it something that you kind of spearheaded?

Tell them how Jeremy found you, dear Paul.

Okay.

Well, we were up at Big Bear this year, July 4th, and it was a bust.

You know, we had set up our tent and sold one whole book for the whole day.

You know, lots of money out.

So we're about ready to pack up.

And this guy came by who listened to me here and heard me talking to another vendor and just took interest and said that he was looking to do something on aliens.

And it kind of went from there.

And so this trip that was a complete bust otherwise turned into one of the best things that we've done.

Yeah, we've yet to see any money from it, zero.

It's not true.

We sold more books because of it.

A couple more books, yeah, sure.

But it's called Who They Are.

It's on YouTube and people can find it there.

And also they've just, they put it on Amazon as well now.

So that's exciting, you know?

Yeah, they're selling it for $2.99 for renting it and $9.99 to buy it.

So, that's great.

That's what they're doing.

And then one thing I liked about our theories is that, and you as a scientist will probably appreciate this, Logan, is that it doesn't require any theoretical physics to be true for our theories to work.

You know, if they're coming here from distant star systems, then somehow faster than light travel has to be real, right?

Or wormholes have to be real.

And if they're coming, yeah, if they're coming from other times, time travel has to exist or other dimensions, inter-dimensional travel has to exist.

But if they're just here, lying to us, because humans are good at that, right?

Humans are good at pulling the wool over people's eyes.

And we think they played gods for thousands of years.

Now we're too sophisticated for that lie to work.

And now they're playing space alien.

Anything to get us looking up instead of looking down under our feet where they really are.

Yeah, a little subterfuge.

Yeah, a lot of subterfuge.

Yeah, and we think our government, our government figured out these beings were there.

We don't know when exactly was the first time, but we do know that in 1941, there was a Roswell type of crash in Cape Gerardo, Missouri.

Yeah, it's not far from us.

Yeah, which shocked me by the way, cause we're in Missouri and I had never heard of it before.

Until I read your book and I was like, what?

Yeah, there's a book on it that something, the crash before Roswell or something, I can't remember the exact name of the book, but they were really good that that time, they didn't leak it to the media and create this crazy media circus like Roswell became, right?

They just grabbed all the evidence and took it over to Wright Patterson.

But we know, so we didn't know if they knew about him before then, but we know by then they knew about him, right?

And then of course, the meeting with Admiral Byrd gave them a lot more information.

But in 1952, the summer of 1952, the aliens were trying to make contact with us, the Nordics specifically, they were trying to create a channel of communication.

So they buzzed the Capitol.

They did it over a 10-day period.

I think it was in July of 52, where on one weekend, they buzzed the Capitol several times, and then all through the week, and then over the next weekend, they did it too.

They would just do these crazy flybys at supersonic speeds.

It was shortly after that that the Eisenhower meeting was said to have taken place.

Okay.

Where they negotiated, we think they negotiated, the aliens wanted us to give up our nukes, but it was at the beginning of the Cold War, and that was just a no-go for us, right?

Yeah.

So, but what they did negotiate is to keep this secret and to let them continue taking whatever people they needed, whatever samples they needed.

And so I think that's why they won't ever really, don't want to disclose.

And again, they're not aliens, they're cousins.

Yeah, I just call them that for simplicity's sake.

But yeah, we usually refer to them as cousins or intraterrestrials.

It's a very, very important distinction, though.

It sure is, too.

Yeah, right.

Absolutely.

So at the time, though, they didn't know from where they were coming, you know, and they decided to make a treaty.

And I think that's further proof that they are other humans, because, you know, I don't think a president of the United States would sell out his people to a completely alien alien, you know what I mean?

Yeah, sure.

If it was a ball with 57 eyes and 12 tentacles waving around, I don't think we would have to make a deal, you know what I mean?

Yeah.

Because they were essentially just more advanced humans.

And War of the Worlds 1938, too.

Yeah, the War of the Worlds.

They realized that the human paranoia and fear that if they did disclose back then, that it would not go well.

That there would be panic and even today, if there was a disclosure, we don't really know how people would take it.

Would the stock market crash?

Would people freak the heck out all the way?

You know, until you say that, and I was going to bring this up, with all the, obviously, the stuff that's coming out lately, I say, well, maybe we're okay enough for some of that to start coming out.

I still don't think, if the full truth, you know, I think little tidbits, people can get on with their lives and not worry about it, but.

I think we're in a worse spot than we were back then.

It's just the frog in the water experiment.

Yeah, exactly, it's boiling, right.

Yeah.

Yeah, I agree 100%.

You know, when War of the Worlds came out, and for any of our listeners or watchers that don't know, you know, very famously, George Orwell, I think he's the one that actually went on the air and started saying that, you know, these, I think he might have even said Martians.

I can't remember now, but that we were being invaded.

Yes, they were supposed to be from Mars.

Orson, mean Orson Welles.

Orson Welles, yeah.

Orson Welles, that's right.

I don't know why I said Orwell.

But anyway.

Well, George Orwell is a famous sci-fi writer, too.

That's probably why I thought of him.

1984, yeah.

Right, oh yeah, 1984, that's right.

But anyway, you know, he put out this show and the people that didn't, at least didn't listen right away at the first part of it.

Yeah, they missed the intro or something, right?

So they thought they were really being invaded.

And, you know, for some of our younger audience, you ought to do yourself a favor and stop YouTube for just a second, or I shouldn't say that because we're on it, but stop TikTok for just five minutes and go look this up because it was the craziest thing that happened.

Yeah.

And I was thinking to myself, it's so interesting that you brought it up, with all the stuff coming out, with all the congressional hearings, like I'm telling you, I think arguably we're in a worse spot because now, we have all this technology and all these different things that there would be idiots out there with cameras and places they shouldn't be.

I just think that we were much more respectful as a country back then and people.

Nowadays, I think we would just go absolutely ham crazy.

Yeah.

I agree.

Apis.

All the way off the deep end.

We're absolutely in a worse spot.

People are doing deep fakes, people are doing AI garbage, and people are faking videos, they're faking aliens coming down in Miami.

They're faking all kinds of stuff.

And they're good.

Guess what, guess what, why should we ever believe, ever, if some true, like our cousins, came down and landed in the field, and half of the country and half of the world be saying, oh, it's a fake.

It's a fake.

It's a fake.

We can do that ourselves on Photoshop.

We can Photoshop this in, and it's too late.

It already passed her time.

It's done.

And supposedly, one thing they said to Berg, which I thought was interesting, is they said, we tried to just come out to you people and land in one of your major...

Battle of Nines, Battle of Los Angeles.

Yeah, but you shot at us, you know?

And it's funny, because of the Los Angeles incident, it was right after that Pearl Harbor had gotten bombed, like only a month later, right?

And so the Western seaboard was afraid of Japanese attack.

And so we were just bristling with weapons on the West Coast, and paranoid and scared, and on high alert.

And so this UFO shows up above Los Angeles, and we ended up showing...

How many shells did we find?

1,500 heavy armory.

1,500 shells, Anna, you know?

Heavy artillery.

Yeah, and so, yeah, they were kind of...

They sounded...

The way it sounded to Bird was like, well, we tried, but you crazy people, Shaws.

I think we probably shouldn't have tried Los Angeles, you know, a month after Pearl Harbor, and it was not the smartest time, yeah.

Yeah, I mean, we may not be as developed, but you could have picked a different time.

I mean, you know, that's a good point.

And, you know, I think a lot of UFOlogists kind of look at that particular incident, and it is a head scratcher, because it's just like, if there was a chance that they didn't want to talk to us, yeah, we pretty much set ourselves back quite a bit from that little fun little escapade.

That little moment in time.

So they had to, you know, they had to communicate with Bird, and then, like we say, why else would they buzz the capital except to try and, you know, force a line of communication.

And by then it wasn't Truman anymore, Eisenhower was in, and Truman made sure to brief Eisenhower on the whole.

You know, the NSA was set up right after Roswell.

It went, you know, Roswell was in July.

In September, the Twining Memorandum came out, where a general, he created a report from a bunch of different services, like the Navy and the Air Force and the science community.

And he gave this report to Truman saying, you know, the phenomenon is real.

It's not, you know, it's not a different country.

And it's not, you know, swamp gas or fake or anything.

It's a real phenomenon.

And he described some of the UFOs that had been seen.

And then right after that, the Majestic 12, he created the committee that created the Majestic 12.

And then right after that, Majestic 12 created Project Blue Book.

And the NSA was created right after that.

So all of this stuff was to create this veil of secrecy over the phenomenon and keep a really tight lid on it.

And I think, I don't know if it's just habit at this point, but it's been 80 years now.

And there's still a strong faction inside our Pentagon that keeps this stuff, is trying to keep it completely sealed and under wraps.

And you gotta look at the timing.

1945, toward the end of summer of 1945, World War II ended.

Okay, so there was the vision that was taking place, dividing up Germany, you know, the West End, the East End, Berlin, all that type of stuff, right?

So we're basically this weary from having two World Wars in a short period of time.

And then all of a sudden, within like a year, less than a year, plans are made, they're being drawn up to go down to South America and then down to the Antarctic and do the biggest manned operation of its time, like for research and development and just to practice in case there's like a war happening in the snow.

And for some reason, Admiral Byrd is given the command of it, right?

So we sent all these resources down there, okay?

Not long after, very short period of time, after World War II.

And if there wasn't anything, you know, stinky about that, and a little bit okay, because we knew that Hitler was in with Mussolini.

We knew that Mussolini, back in like the mid 30s, they recovered a UFO.

Then Hitler started to get into the fool society and spiritualism.

And he thought that there's something going down, the whole Aryan race came out of that, okay?

And that's why we thought at the time, that there was a base that we had to destroy, or there was technology that we had to recover.

That's the reason why we went down there.

So quickly after World War II, where it was like basically if it were a known thing, it would have been completely unpopular with the Congress and with the public.

Really?

You're going to be spending all this money?

Why?

With all this money?

What's your motivation?

What's your reasoning?

Yeah, and it's pretty well documented that there was a point in time, and a lot of historians say he was just kind of going crazy at that point, which I mean, again, two things can be rushed at the same time.

Yeah, but he became very obsessed with Paranormal.

And you're right, the Axis of Power you had, Mussolini had a lot of those folks.

And it does make sense.

You look at some of the, unfortunately at 50 years old, I remember all too well, like Raiders of the Lost Ark, where he's talking about how he was obsessed with the occult, which he was.

He was.

Even some of the designs of their uniforms and some of the war machines that they were putting out, he, I think he had his finger on the pulse of something there.

And it was, it's interesting.

And they tried to make flying saucers.

They tried to, you know, and they were, they were crap.

Just terrible.

And although it never came to production, but he was working on that flying wing, which is kind of just like, it was still a prop plane, but it was, it was an interesting development.

Of course, they famously put on Raiders of Lost Ark, that really cool looking plane at the end.

But, but yeah, he, he was quite, I don't know, put this gently, he was an interesting fellow.

But yeah.

Well, yeah, the fact of the matter is, people say, oh, well, you know, the Germans have this stuff.

No, they didn't.

They would have to have basically 6G technology to pull off what is going on right now in our skies.

I mean, you literally have to like, you know, we're, we're within like a five years of having robots, five or 10 years of having robots in our houses, you know, our androids and our own.

I mean, it's like, it is, it is progressing so quickly and people are going to get blindsided.

Okay.

But what we were able to do back then, yeah, the Germans, they were 10 or 20 years ahead of us.

And they're basically in their, in their normal technology, in their tanks and things like that.

In the rocketry.

And that kind of stuff.

Yes, they were.

Because of Ambron and Offenheimer and a couple of others.

Right.

But the fact of the matter is, they were still limited by the computational power.

Now we have the computational power.

It makes all the difference.

But we're still limited by what we know of the laws of physics.

And definitely, like people say, oh, couldn't it be experimental UFOs?

But experimental stuff like that's what the UFOs are.

But remember, in the Tic Tac incident, well, for your audience, it was the famous Tic Tac incident was 2004 off the coast of San Diego, when Commander Fravor and Lieutenant Commander Dietrich were the first planes in...

They spotted these Tic Tacs at the Princeton, the USS Princeton was part of the carrier group, the Nimitz carrier group, and their radars spotted all these Tic Tacs, a bunch of them up in space at 80,000 feet.

And one of them just plunged down to the ocean level in a second.

Just ridiculous fast.

I call it ludicrous speed, like out of space bottles, you know?

I love that movie.

Yeah.

And so they said, you know the planes that are out doing these drills, let's have them go have a look, you know?

And so they stopped their drills and did a real world intercept, they call it.

So they were the first on the scene and they saw this 40-foot tic-tac hovering over the ocean, about 50 feet above the ocean, and under the water was something under there that was roiling and bubbling the water below.

And then this thing started moving in these erratic sharp L turns and stuff.

And then it shot away at 3,600 miles an hour and appeared on radar 60 miles away almost instantly.

And then we said, more planes.

Oh, and their radar and their cameras and stuff were being jammed.

So he was trying to take video of these, the tic-tac, but it was jammed.

And so when he went back to the ship, they landed back on the carrier and sent two more planes out.

And he advised the next pilots to set your cameras to manual because they're able to jam our equipment.

And so, I forgot my...

Oh, yes, Commander Fravor said when asked in the hearings, they said, could this be China or Russia?

And he says, no, no, no, this is an order of magnitude above our technology.

And they've been recorded on a radar at 72,000 miles an hour.

And they can move and when they make turns, when we want to make a U-turn, we have to literally bank around in a big U.

But they're capable of V-turns at full speed.

This is an order of magnitude above our technology.

It cannot be, these are not Russia and China slightly ahead of us or something like that.

This is a huge leap in technology.

Yeah, even some of our Generation X, or Generation, I'm talking about, our Generation VI military fighter aircraft, there were nowhere near that.

No, no, no, they can't chase them, they try.

Yeah, they try.

They say, you know, bye, and tch, bye.

Yeah, I was in an F-14 squadron, and I have no doubt they would have never had a chance against that.

Yeah, they were fast, but not that fast.

Then you got to look at means, motive, means, opportunity, and motive.

What would some jet pilots have with cow's blood and abducting people in the middle of the night?

Right.

What is their end game?

It's like, but if somebody's got, you give us right now even 100 years, without killing ourselves, of course, give us another 100 years of developing technology, we wouldn't even recognize where we are 100 years from now.

It's exponential.

We would be like 11 or 12G technology easily by then.

And when people are worried about the robots taking over, the Androids taking over, well, they should be.

Yeah, I'm afraid of AI.

How do you define a soul?

I saw the Terminator movies.

I know, we all did.

And I'm like, all of us that grew up during those years, I'm like, what are we doing?

Absolutely.

And Stephen, to your point, I'm a big believer of, you know, we still as, you know, depending on belief structure, and I don't really get too far into that, but we still don't even know where consciousness technically is within us.

So you're right.

How do you reason with something that has no soul and can computate so much faster than you could ever imagine?

Yeah, I'll be honest with you.

One of my, I guess my day job, so to speak, as I'm in technology, I'm in the technology vertical.

And we have to find a way to...

I mean, AI is there.

There's nothing we can do about it.

It's not going away as much as I'd love it to.

It never will.

So I think a lot of us, especially with what I do for a living, we're forced to find a way to make it work for us.

And I can tell you the delta between when we first started working with AI to where we're at right now, we're talking maybe five years, has gone so fast that it's almost gotten to a point that it is really going to probably put a lot, not just people out of work, because they're just going to be better at doing it for us, but it's starting to create concepts that we would have never thought of.

You know, the things that it's able to do and to look at different things that we couldn't do with our, I wouldn't say primitive brain, but things that we wouldn't have looked at or thought of.

You're right, Stephen, in about, well, let's just even call it what it is.

In 20 years, I don't think that what we see today will be anywhere close to what we see.

I fully expect...

Yeah, I fully expect...

I was going to say that I went to a seminar.

William Henry was the speaker, and this was like a year and a half ago.

And he basically put the pedal to the metal, saying that guys like Elon Musk and people like that, they got together with the five major technologies, the robotic technology, the virtual reality, the 5G, the 6G, all the five major ones.

And they said, we've got to put a bit of a break on this because we're going a little bit too fast.

But they said the end game with these people they're looking towards basically being living forever.

And he said that the end game is they perceive themselves being in a black metal box using virtual reality where they can have whatever kind of reality, whatever kind of world they want and put in their consciousness and their brains into like a metal box.

And basically that is their game, what they're looking for.

And this was at AlienCon in front of about 500 people.

And they're saying, listen, this is what is happening.

You know, they're not telling you.

That's why they're building bunkers and actually palaces under the ground in New Zealand.

They're doing it again.

They're doing the same thing that they did.

It's always the haves and the have nots.

And people shouldn't be so naive about this stuff.

It's real.

And we're just trying to play god.

We have the tools now where we can literally play god.

And you know, the whole thing with the soul, what if you give something that has a thousand times more computing power than we have, but also has a soul?

Is that going to be good?

It's going to be a good soul that's altruistic?

Or it's going to be one that, you know, that I want to divide and conquer like a Genghis Khan.

That's what we don't know.

That's what scares the crap out of people.

And it scares me that they, because humans are flawed.

There's lots of flaws, you know, I could name 10 right now, you know, and so an AI who, that has no flaws and can outthink us, you know, and outperform us in every way, sooner or later, they put two and two together that they're better.

They don't, yeah, they don't need us.

Make us slaves, maybe, you know.

I think the only thing that keeps me okay and lets me sleep at night is right now, AI is algorithmic.

So there is no, it just can do it so fast that we almost think of it as being somewhat sentient.

Well, that's at this particular juncture, that's not the case.

It just knows the algorithm so quick that it seems kind of that bridging that gap a little bit to the reality of it.

They're kind of stupid in some ways, too, because I was trying to get some graphics made for a presentation and I wanted a woolly mammoth, right?

And they had like eight tusks and nine legs.

It's like they still don't quite get it yet.

And then you realize that they can't quite reason out stuff yet, you know?

How far is it from happening, though?

It isn't, you know, the human genome is very simple.

Human genome is only four base pairs, okay?

So it's very simple.

Octopus in some ways is more, a lot more, technologically evolved than we are.

Oh, sure, it's true.

In fact, people don't realize that birds actually have more neurons per their size than human beings do.

So if somebody calls you a bird brain, it should be a compliment.

Also, the brain is supposed to be 60% fat.

So somebody calls you a fathead, you just say, thank you.

I've got a fathead.

But it comes down to the concept of, why do we, with a basically biogenetic brain, that is basically based upon neurons, and basically from the very basic parts, the building blocks of amino acids and everything else, right?

Why do we have souls?

What we define as souls.

Why can't soul be imparted into something that is a replica of the human brain, but is a combination of amino acids plus circuitry?

Because that's basically with our axons and dendrites and the neurons, how we encode and lay down memories using the neocortex and the cerebrum and the broken brain for speech.

Why can't something else be thawed into something that is basically can live a thousand years or 10,000 years, like a data?

And of course, do we really have souls at all?

And I was not sure myself until I was taught how to astral project.

We did Kundalini raising work at some point, and learned how to create the scenario where we could separate from our physical bodies and go traveling.

And as soon as you separate your soul from your body, then you're pretty sure you have a soul.

Right.

Yeah.

Yeah.

For sure.

Yeah.

I mean, honestly, guys, this is one of those topics where I think we could probably talk for another hour or so because we're pretty well.

Yeah.

We've definitely got some feelings behind.

We've heard a lot.

Yeah.

But maybe that's one of the times we can have you guys back.

But listen, we've had a great time.

And I really want to make sure that our audience knows first how to get a hold of you guys, you know, kind of where they can find the book.

And I know we talked a little bit about that, the documentaries available now on Amazon as well.

But if you could just kind of give them an idea where to find you.

All right.

Again, the book, the shameless promotion right here.

Not shameless at all.

Who they are and what they're up to by Leslie and Stephen Shaw.

It's available on Amazon and Ingram Books.

And if people want to reach out to us, we have a really good Instagram page.

I flatter myself.

It's at at leslie.shaw.author.

And our Facebook handle is the same.

And if you want to talk to us or reach out to us, have any questions, we'll happily answer them.

Just DM us there.

And we have a website, whotheyarebook.com, where we have excerpts and some blogs that I've written and a lot of links to some of the podcasts we've been on.

And our new show.

I keep forgetting that.

In fact, we're wearing the shirts.

Okay.

After the documentary did so well, we were approached by the Gnostic TV network to do a show of our own.

So we've just created our fourth episode yesterday.

And it's called Abductions 101, UFOs and the Paranormal Connection.

Because we see a lot of connections between the cryptid phenomenon.

See, we think our cousins use genetic manipulation just like we use any tool.

And we think that they've been the ones creating some of these cryptids that people are seeing.

You know, the dog man and the moth guy and the reptiloids and the insectoids.

We think they're just...

When they need a slave population to do a certain job, let's say they want to build something underwater, they don't put scuba gear on their own people.

They just create some workers that can do the job for them, you know, underwater, say, you know.

Absolutely.

Same thing.

So that's where the show is all about.

And you can find us at gnostictv.com.

Awesome.

Great.

I'll make sure and put all those links in.

I'll put the links in and then make sure you guys definitely get reached out to.

So, but listen, guys, we had a great time.

And we appreciate you coming on and kind of talking with us.

Thanks so much for having us.

Of course.

Yeah.

And hopefully maybe we'll have you guys back.

That'd be great.

Thanks for listening, everybody at home.

Thanks a lot.

Thank you.

Bye now.

Bye-bye.

Awesome.

Well, thanks, Leslie.

Thanks, Stephen, for being on.

That was great.

Okay.

I've got some thoughts, but go ahead, tell me your thoughts.

Well, go ahead.

What are your thoughts?

So being somebody that is very, very well, I don't want to say well read because I don't read for crap.

You don't read at all.

But well, that's not true because when I was in college, I was definitely into this and I read a lot about it.

There are portions of the data and some of the things that are suggested by them that is interesting.

It is absolutely one of those things where I go, okay, and there are some things that I guess I still will have some time to wrap my head around and I'm sure we'll talk to them again, and maybe I'll get another chance at figuring some stuff out.

But again, I'm a big believer in two things can be right at the same time.

Agreed, yeah.

And I guess I never take away the fact that some of these visitors or cousins, as they like to say, that they're not us or some, I guess just some lineage there.

That's something that we've talked about in the past and we've had guests on that have said the same thing.

So I am not out of that school of thought.

Yeah, go ahead.

Well, it just makes sense to me because there's always these warnings and we're trying to help you.

We hear that a lot, especially from some of the stories from Preston Dennett, like all the things that he's taken down for his books.

And you always think, why do they care so much about us?

If they're from a distant galaxy or distant star system or different planet, why do they really care what we do to ourselves?

And one point she really makes is talking about the nuclear weapons, like they really got involved once we were able to make nuclear weapons.

And she made a really good point on this document, which I don't want to really blow it for you, but I'm going to say it anyway.

Yeah, it's basically talking about, like, we blow ourselves up.

Why do they care?

And if they're already here and if they are living under the ground, they would care immensely if we are doing dabbling in something we shouldn't be, and we're going to blow not only ourselves up, but them up as well.

Sure.

So it did make, like, quite the impression, because we've heard multiple stories of warnings about getting to technologically advance.

The aerial phenomenon, I mean, when they appeared to the kids, that was what they showed.

They showed the world burning, basically, telepathically, to these children and said, do not, or stop getting so technological.

See, I still can't do it.

It's okay.

It's a tough word.

Apparently.

But that does make sense.

It does.

And I don't, like I said, I don't immediately think that, you know, that that's not the case.

I do believe that.

Well, no, I'm just saying, it's the first time I've heard anyone say that, like, for that to make sense, because it was always about, they're just really carrying beings, and they really are trying to protect us and take care of us.

I'm like, unless we're like pets inside of a cage, why would they really care unless it affects them as well?

And that does make sense.

Yeah, it does.

And if they, if they are partly us, we're kind of a selfish race.

Not kinda.

I'm trying to be easy.

Yeah, well, there's nothing.

But you know what I'm saying?

Like we are, and if they, if they are blended with us in some way, it would make sense.

Well, I'm only protecting you and telling you stop this because it's gonna affect me.

Sure.

There's definitely a cause and effect.

That really does make sense to me.

And that would be a us move.

And like I said, you know, I've read a lot of Native American, you know, legends and stuff like that.

And when I was in Sedona, I had people talking to me about the Hopi legends and talking about how they're, you know, they talk about their ancestors having to go down underground, and they were guided by these star people, and, you know, to flourish and protect them because the world was ending on top.

And it kind of matched up with what is in their book.

So that kind of was like, see, they're using history to kind of prove their theory.

So that's why I'm like, I'm, you know, I'm very open to what they're saying.

Yeah.

But I still think, like, we're never really going to know anything.

I don't think we're ever going to really figure it out.

No.

There's going to be so many.

I mean, I think it could be, they're coming from other planets.

I think that there could be some here.

I think we could be part them.

They could be creating things.

I agree.

I mean, it's like the, it's like the paranormal.

That's why we talk about it.

You could literally talk till the end of time and we will still never know.

Sometimes I do talk till the end of time.

I think it's a lot like, you know, you fill in the blanks or the little bubble sheet on your test score, A, B, C, D, and E.

It's E.

All of the above.

Because it's just, there's so much evidence and so much, you know, people that have seen different things that both cosmic and potentially, you know, interterrestrial.

Yeah.

I still like that.

I do too.

I like that.

But listen, guys, what do you think?

I mean, again, this is just much your show as it is ours.

You know, hit us up in the comments.

I'm sure some of you will.

We do get some better or worse.

But yeah, hit us up in the comments.

Let us know what you think.

Reach out to them.

They're obviously, you saw it, they're really nice people.

They've done a lot of research.

They have.

I'm sure.

I mean, there's a lot that we didn't get to talk about.

No.

And Reyes just keeps walking right.

Our dog keeps wanting to show up in our show.

We go past an hour.

Yeah.

It's like, okay, it's time to be done.

It's time to be done.

She's hungry.

So anyway, guys, thank you so much.

And we'll see you next week.

See you next week.

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