Hauntings at the University of Arizona

Join Logan and Nicole on this spine-chilling episode of Generation X Paranormal as they uncover the ghostly secrets of The University of Arizona's Old Main. With a rich history dating back to 1891, this iconic building is rumored to be a hotbed of paranormal activity. From eerie footsteps echoing in empty halls to whispers in the night, our team dives deep into the history, legends, and ghostly encounters reported over the years. Don’t miss this thrilling investigation filled with EVP recordings, personal experiences, and expert insights into what may be lingering in this historic landmark.

Transcript

Well, hey there, fellow truth seekers.

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Now, let's get back to the show.

Can you feel me?

Can we feel you?

Not yet.

Can you knock on the door that we're leaning on to feel?

Can you see us?

This is my place.

Okay.

I understand.

Well, hi, everybody, welcome back.

Hey, everyone.

Generation X Paranormal, I'm Logan.

And I'm Nicole.

And I'm gonna put up a sign that I'm very happy to put out.

If you don't know what that is, you're about to.

This is the very well-known wildcat cry symbol that people put up during games.

And why does that matter?

Well, today we are covering the University of Arizona.

Now, I'm originally from Tucson, well, Tucson and San Diego.

But we'll say Tucson for the most part, because that's where pretty much all my family is.

So if you're from that area, you live, breathe, eat, die University of Arizona.

You are a wildcat fan from the moment you get to the cradle to the grave.

It is built in you.

It is everything that you are.

You know that just by going to visiting back home.

I mean, if there's a wildcat game on, whether it be basketball or football.

Everyone's watching it.

Everybody's watching it.

The town pretty much will shut down if it's not already.

So bringing that up, it's just to kind of tell you guys how important this particular episode is.

And of course, we are adorned in...

I'm wearing his old sweatshirt.

Yep, my old sweatshirt.

I've got my wildcat hat on and of course a shirt.

So yeah, it's a very special episode.

Now, we were visiting my family this last October.

And there was a lot of things going on.

Best Friend was getting married, a whole bunch of cool stuff.

But we also realized that we had an opportunity to maybe go out and take a look at a few sites that could or could not have some paranormal attachment.

And U of A is definitely one of them.

And there's a lot of history at the U of A.

Yes, there is.

And we're going to get into a lot of that.

But I really wanted to give you guys an idea of where this came from.

I think for the most part, we wanted to focus a little bit on the history of it and get some, you know, like we do, we want to get some good evidence.

And this was our first, I would say our first probably solo investigation where we were kind of in charge.

Now, I will tell you that my dear sister, Marcy, helped us with this episode.

She will be the person behind the camera.

And I think she even makes a, she might make an appearance.

I can't remember now if she does or not.

At least her voice.

Her voice sure will.

But we went down to the campus, we had a good time, and we ran into some stuff.

Yes, we did some interesting stuff.

Yeah.

Another big reason why it's a big deal is my dad.

My dad graduated from there.

So it's always been in my life.

One of my earliest memories.

And they say you don't remember anything unless you're what, five or six above.

I have memories from before that.

Yeah, so do I.

And I know my mom's going to sit there and say, no, you don't.

I do.

I remember my dad holding me and it was for a football game.

He was listening to it over the radio.

This was a different time, guys.

But he had his beer in one hand and me on the other.

And when they were scoring, he was jumping up and down, you know, and he was saying another colorful word touchdown, you know, for Arizona.

And while he's bopping up and down, I'm getting just absolutely showered in beer.

So, so yeah, it's needless to say, it's a big deal.

It's in the blood.

So let's, let's kind of just get into it.

There's some really cool stuff coming up.

Let's break into it.

So we are going to start with one of the buildings on the campus of University of Arizona called Centennial Hall.

Now Centennial Hall, I guess was originally named the auditorium when it opened in 1936 and then they renamed it Centennial Hall in 1985 after they did like a $4 million renovation to it.

But it's basically a hall that has performances.

Every campus has a building like that.

You know, my campus did.

And it's really cool because it reaches out to the community as well.

You can go to Broadway shows for a lot cheaper.

Even students usually get discounts on that.

Yep, they sure do.

So, I think they perform or they have performers at least like 50 different performances a year.

Yeah, I remember it being really busy.

I mean, it's and it's not just kind of like what you said, it's not just U of A students and U of A performances.

It's right.

It's actually Broadway musicals and stuff.

In fact, my mom took me there to see Annie.

Okay, what do you got?

Annie.

It was fun.

I enjoyed it.

What's wrong with Annie?

I don't know.

Some people may say it was weird for a guy to go see Annie with his mom, but it was fun.

I loved it.

It's manly.

It is manly.

I watched Wicked and I loved it.

What do you got?

So, yeah, it's really cool.

It was very state of the art back then.

Of course, Tucson is a big place.

So as things grew, there's more things now that are more suited for it.

But no, it's a really cool place.

Yeah.

Well, and I think it's a pretty, I mean, we were not able to actually get inside.

All the doors were locked.

You know, we were there on a Sunday.

So, and I don't think they leave it open unless there's a performance going on anyway.

So, or some students are using it.

But it's got, I think, a seating capacity of about 2,500 people.

So, it's pretty decent size.

Yeah, pretty decent size.

And I know when we were there, we saw the signs on the outside of the building that they had had like a Beetlejuice musical.

I'm like, man, that's pretty cool.

I wanted to go see that.

Yeah, pretty cool.

I didn't get to do that.

I mean, the movie was cool, but to have an musical, that'd be kind of wild.

Yeah, I kind of want to see it.

And we will check it out.

So anyway, now this is a campus.

So, investigating outdoors, for one, yes, can be a nightmare because of all the sounds.

But you're on a campus.

And we thought, okay, Sunday morning, most college students are in bed.

They've been partying the night before.

And specifically, we were there the day after homecoming.

So I'm like, this will be a good time for the spans time.

We were out in Arizona, like Sunday morning after homecoming, they're all going to be in bed.

We'll have less exposure.

And actually, it wasn't that busy.

It really wasn't.

But it's still, there was a lot of noises.

And if you know University of Arizona, we're known for sports and a lot of education.

But the other thing we're really known for, we know how to party.

So I was really surprised there was even anybody alive that morning.

But anyway.

And the temperature, I mean, it was still pretty warm.

So you got all the wildlife, all the birds, all that background noise.

But we did the best that we could for what we had.

We did go to the side of the building, to the side doors, where there was kind of a more quiet area, so we wouldn't be disturbed.

Now, here are the claims, which...

So I looked everywhere to try to find actual historical significance that this was something.

I couldn't find a shred of it.

So it's either some kind of urban legend, or somebody has the research in...

Yeah, I don't know where it came from.

In the university vault.

Yeah.

So the claims are, before the building was there, when this was Old West territory, when this was Native American tribal land, basically, there was supposedly a young Spanish man from the colonial period in about the 1700s, and he's dressed entirely in black.

So I always think of like Zorro.

When I imagine this in my head, I think of like Zorro.

Very likely.

I mean, there's a reason why Zorro was dressed the way he's dressed.

But he's supposedly very young in his 20s, and he seemed to be lurking and moving around the backstage area.

He's also seen walking on the catwalks overhead.

That is very Zorro-ish.

Yeah, that's why I keep the steam that way.

I'm going to watch you do your show.

I am brown skinned.

I'm allowed to do that.

And you're doing Antonia Benitez.

I know.

By the way, I can do a good Antonia Benitez.

And this is a weird claim, but they say that he's also been heard.

I don't know how they know this is him, but he's been heard making horse-like whinnying noises.

What?

I don't know.

Horse-like whinnying noises?

I'm just reporting the information.

Geez.

I mean, wouldn't it just be a horse?

Why would it be him?

I mean, they're really breaking it down to its lowest common denominator.

So this is the claims of seeing this guy.

And the reason for this is this story, okay?

Legend.

Yeah.

It says that on the current site where the theater sits, there were two men visiting from Spain in the late 1700s.

Okay, so same time period, Spanish guy.

And they had a disagreement over young woman's affections.

Imagine that.

Okay.

And one challenged the other to a duel.

Okay.

Do you think they did the glove thing?

You know what I mean?

No, I don't think that's a Spanish thing.

Did they wear gloves?

Come on.

It's not like it's Mars.

They're going to have gloves for something.

Let's see if there's Mars.

Anyway, one man chose to do, you know, because they usually let the loser of whatever choose how they're going to do it.

Sure.

At least that's what the movies say.

Okay.

So he chose lances on horseback.

Good.

He chose that.

I guess.

The hell were his options?

Well, I don't know.

I don't know how they choose these things.

So they're getting ready to do it.

I guess they're charging at each other.

And the girl who they're fighting over in the first place runs out to stop them.

And as the horses are running, I obviously couldn't stop in time or whatever the situation was.

And she was trampled to death.

Kind of would have seen that coming.

So they killed the girl that they're fighting over, first off.

And I guess there were dogs in the area and they began barking at her screams.

So let's throw that in.

Sure.

Okay.

And it caused one of the guys to be thrown from his horse.

Okay.

And when that happened, he basically laid it on his head and died.

God, I don't mean to laugh at somebody's death, but...

But two out of the three have passed away now.

Okay.

Now, the guy that was left alive, basically, he fled south towards the Sonoran border.

Now, if nobody knows, Sonora is Mexico, Arizona.

It's only a couple, what, two, three hours from Tucson to the Mexico border.

I don't even think it's that long.

So Nogales is...

Maybe it's an hour.

I can't remember.

No, it's farther than that, honey.

It's about two hours.

Okay.

Anyway, but as he was on his way, he was captured and tortured by a band of Apaches.

Yeah.

Okay.

So all three supposedly died in this little thing.

So nobody got a lifetime supply of Nasinex.

Love hurts.

Love hurts.

Love hurts.

So that is the legend.

They say there's historical records.

I could not find a shred of it, but that's what they say.

And they're probably wasn't the greatest records keeping back then for this kind of thing anyway.

So they see the Spanish guy in the theater.

They hear winning noises.

Now, could it just have been the horse?

I'm sure the horse is possibly killed in some of this.

I don't know.

Certainly traumatized.

Okay, so now we come to our second spirit that's seen at Centennial Hall.

Now, there is a female spirit that is seen that wears a long floor length Victorian dress with a high button collar.

Okay.

Okay.

And she's also seen with one of those cameo pendant.

Oh, yeah.

The big ones are kind of at the throat.

And then her hair is also pinned up.

Okay.

Yeah, I'm getting it now.

And she is supposedly pushes people on the stairways, like pushes them forcefully where they fall down the stairs.

Geez.

And sometimes she pushes them in the corridors and in open areas, like she's rushing past like they feel like a push and like a rushing of air past them.

So she is, I mean, I wonder if that would be considered residual.

Well, that's what I was thinking, because if she was running out to stop them on horseback, could it just be her recreating?

Maybe.

It's interesting.

She's also sometimes seen by the performers on the stage during classical performances, only the classical performers.

Like the, I would think probably like operas or classical music, that type of stuff.

Something of her era.

Yeah, something that she'd be drawn to.

Right.

So she is seen.

Here are some of the other claims of Centennial Hall.

There are sounds coming from a vintage era piano that they can sometime hear late at night, and people hear muffled conversations in the theater, which are a lot of claims of these theaters.

You hear stuff like that.

Now, there was reportedly a young theater student who was working up on the wooden catwalks of the original stage before they redid everything.

Right.

Who lost his footing and he fell over 50 feet to the stage floor and died.

That's a rough way to go.

So that is a confirmed death in the theater.

Yeah.

And that you're right.

That's not uncommon for these theaters to have, you know, there's those types of things.

There's accidents and then there's a lot of people that claim things from theaters because there's a lot of emotion being kind of portrayed.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So I think they have the typical.

And then I think I read another one, something about a piano falling on someone, but I don't know how true that one is.

I didn't really want to include it because I'm like, that sounds kind of made up, but you don't know for sure.

Yeah.

But those are the claims.

So we went to the side door and did some investigating.

So what did we have with us?

Well, we didn't have a ton because it's just, you don't want to be walking around there with a whole bunch of equipment.

But we had our voice recorder, and then we had the GoPro that Marcy is filming us on.

And then of course, we had our phones with our apps.

And guys, when it comes to these ITC things, there's a lot of controversy behind them.

What we like to do is we try to run, if we're doing one ITC, we try to run something a little more analog at the same time.

Just to see if there's any correlation between the two.

But again, we haven't done a ton of this, but this is kind of the way we plan on investigating.

So that's what we had out there.

I don't think we did anything.

At least for a populated outside space.

Right, yeah, for sure.

You can't really pack all the equipment that you have.

Yeah, and so much interference.

Keep in mind, while it's not illegal to do what we were doing, it's just, you know, it raises a lot of weird flags around a lot of people, you know?

Anyway, but yeah, we had that out there.

And yeah, it was-

Primarily use Ghost Tube is the app that we used.

Yeah, we use Ghost Tube.

We're not sponsored by them, but that's okay if you guys want to sponsor us at some point.

But no, we use Ghost Tube.

And yeah, it was interesting.

So we're going to play a little bit of what we did here and let you listen to some of the responses we got.

Obviously, it's not everything that we did because it would make this podcast like four hours long.

Yeah, so yeah, we'll play that and then we'll talk about some of the responses afterwards.

Yeah, and keep in mind guys, there's a lot of birds and stuff like we said.

So anyway, here you go.

If this is the lady, why are you angry?

Aroused.

Aroused?

Okay, what makes you aroused?

Larry.

Larry?

Is that your name, Larry?

Who are you, Larry?

Okay, I'm right here.

Okay.

Did you work here at Centennial Hall?

What would you like to tell us, Larry?

Would you not want us to talk to you, Larry?

Okay.

So obviously, on the actual recorder, I listened to it multiple times.

If there was something, there's no way we would have ever heard it.

There were birds, there were people talking, there were so many backer noises, the city bus, cars, motorcycles, all that stuff.

And we kind of expected that being outside in that atmosphere.

But you never know.

Sometimes you get really loud responses.

But if we did, I didn't hear a shred of it on the recorder.

But now you've heard what some of the words that came across on the ghost stop.

There was one name and some of the other stuff was interesting.

And we kind of tried to focus on the Spanish people.

I don't know.

The one with where it says aroused when we're talking about the lady.

There are some women that get turned on by men fighting over them.

So I thought that one was a little interesting.

That was kind of interesting.

The only other one was the name Larry, because that's kind of seemed, it doesn't sound like a Spanish name to me.

No.

I mean, nickname, you never know.

Yeah.

So I was like, okay.

So when we got home, I did some research on a Larry that might be tied to the theater.

Now, there are two Larrys that are associated with University of Arizona.

And we'll talk about this first man.

His name was Dr.

Larry Day.

And he taught voice and opera and opera theater at the school.

His major fields in music were voice, opera, and choral conducting.

Wow.

Yeah.

Now, he was also known as a professional baritone soloist.

He was hired by the university in 1976, and he actually helped develop the curriculum for the music theater option for the BFA degree.

Oh, that's cool.

Yeah.

So, he's beneficial to the university, and I'm sure he was in Centennial Hall multiple times if that's what he was dealing with.

Now, he did retire in 1997, but he did continue to work part-time for the university until 1999.

So, he wasn't bored, I guess.

He did die February 8th of 2012 from cancer.

He was 86 years old.

But the U of A now hosts, every year, they host a memorial voice competition with his name and some other lady's name, like in the memorial to him where they let people compete for an award.

That's interesting.

Yeah.

Now, every year, it's in a different building at the U of A.

But the most recent one that they hosted was in Centennial Hall in 2020.

That's interesting.

So that's a Larry that is associated with music and associated with that type of performance with the university.

I mean, it's so difficult unless you know there was no last names.

There really wasn't, as you guys saw in the video.

Right.

And he did pass away.

And, you know, as you guys saw in the clip, there's no way to really ascertain.

Look at that word.

There's no real way to ascertain who is what and those sort of things.

But it is interesting.

It's worth noting.

Now, the second one, I think he's still alive.

I don't, you know, I think, and he might actually still be teaching Larry Lang.

And he has his musical arts degree in violin and conducting.

He's actually like major violinist.

And I was reading that even, what's that martial arts guy?

Which one?

Jet Li.

So he's one of them.

Yeah, Jet Li actually hired him to do the music for one of his big movies.

Really?

Yeah.

It was like an Asian title, so I couldn't read it.

But yeah, because, yeah, so he's like very, very good.

But he is the artistic director of the Arizona Chinese New Year Festival.

Okay.

And they hold that in Centennial Hall each year.

So he tries to bridge the gap for China and the US.

He's very big on making everybody get along and bridging that gap.

So he does that.

And I guess it's a big deal.

So he is in the Centennial Hall each year.

But he's still alive.

I mean, unless they're referring to him in some way, I don't know.

But those are the only two Larrys that I could find.

I couldn't find any like deaths on campus with the name Larry, anything like that that would be associated with the hall.

But yeah, and honestly, at Centennial Hall, I think one of those things that you probably need to be in it.

Yeah, exactly.

You know, the fact that we weren't able to go in, probably leads a lot to the fact that we didn't really get a ton.

Yeah, yeah.

So, let's go on to the next one.

On to the next.

So, moving on to Old Main.

Old Main, and I know most universities have one of these old buildings that was like the first building.

Old Main is definitely one of those where, that's kind of like the homecoming stuff all happens there.

It's sort of the focal point of a lot of celebration that happens.

Memorials, everything that has some ceremony to it can typically only happen in a few places.

Sometimes it will happen at, well, sometimes it will happen at Lute Olsen floor, which is in McHale Center, which is where they play basketball.

Had to throw that in there.

Sometimes they'll do it on the football field, but not often.

Most of the time, it's going to be centered around Old Main.

And it's actually when you're going to potentially tour or if you're thinking about being a student there, that's the first place you go.

You go straight to Old Main and you go through and then they do the tour, the guided tour from there.

So it's kind of what a lot of people would consider to be the heart and soul of the university.

Yeah.

So let's get started on the history.

Now Old Main was the first building, obviously, before there was any kind of university.

And there's a lot of stuff associated with this, but let's go back to the very beginning.

So it is located on the site, obviously, if Centennial Hall, same way, of an ancient Native American village.

Right.

Okay.

Dating well back over 10,000 years.

Yeah, it's way back there.

It's a long time.

Okay.

Now, so let's start with the first.

There was a supervisor of the construction of the building, who lived in Tucson from 1841 to 1888.

He came from Sonora, Mexico in the summer of 1841.

He was a Sonoran businessman and a professional gambler, and he was construction management.

So he had his hands on a lot of stuff.

Now, as they're, he's kind of the foreman.

This is like those days what they would call a foreman.

And in Spanish, we call that mas chingun.

Okay.

Whatever.

Anyway, but he would, and there's more than one reason he would do this, but he would stay in the building overnight, the unfinished building, because people could get in the building.

There's no doors, there's no windows on it at this point.

And sometimes the local natives would stop by to see the construction.

And he would kind of like show them around, and show them that they were very interested in it.

Sure, yeah, that makes sense.

But the main reason he stayed is because they were, so they were very upset Tucson citizens, okay?

Because at this point, they're trying to decide where to make the capital of Arizona and where to put all the funding and all the new buildings and stuff.

So it's between Phoenix and it's between Tucson.

And they were going to build this Arizona asylum, mental asylum, okay?

And everybody wanted that to be in Tucson, because that was going to bring a lot to the city.

And then the other place they were going to build was a university.

Well, they decided to put the asylum in Phoenix.

Yep.

And they decided to put the university in Tucson.

So the citizens were ticked.

Yep.

They were really upset.

Let's be clear.

The university is in Tucson.

Just throwing that out there.

For you Arizona state fans.

All right.

Let's not get into that.

I'm not a sports person, and I think it's ridiculous, but...

Those who know, know.

Yeah.

Okay.

Now, these citizens would talk a lot about trying to burn the building down at night, because they were ticked off.

You know how people get mad.

They think that's going to stop anything.

I don't know how they thought that was going to stop anything, but that was their plan.

So he would stay in there to protect the building overnight.

So there's one morning that the workers arrive at the building, and I guess this foreman, which we haven't said his name is, Carlos Maldonado, okay?

And his horse and buggy and everything were tied up at the post.

And they go into the building, first floor was empty, and they're calling his name out, Carlos, Carlos, Carlos, can't find him.

They go up to the second floor, which is still unfinished at this point, and they found him sitting in a wooden chair with his back to him.

Now he was known to have like a real big sense of humor, and he would play jokes on, you know, and pranks and stuff on them.

So, they kind of snuck up behind him, and like kind of screamed at him like, yeah, you know, like that, to try to scare him, because they thought he was asleep in the chair.

They were trying to spook him.

Well, he didn't move, didn't respond.

So, when they came around the side, they saw a large buffalo skinner's knife sticking deep into his throat.

Yikes.

And they say it cut an artery, I don't know.

I mean, I guess they just assumed that it did.

And the front of his clothes were saturated with blood.

Yeah, I mean, in theory.

But I mean, first of all, the side of that must have been just so scared for those guys.

But yeah, that's a rough way to go.

Now, I could not find historical text on this, but I know the Tucson Museum.

Yeah, I don't know if it's a history museum, what it is, but actually has the information about this.

And they have the knife that killed him.

And we've got a picture of it we're going to put up here.

And it shows dried blood on the...

Yeah, and the blade.

The stabbing part.

Right, stabbing them up part.

The stabbing part.

So, I mean, I don't know.

I couldn't find anything else.

But I mean, at that time period, it would be kind of hard to find.

Yeah.

But we also have his picture here.

But if that happened to him in that building, yikes.

And this is what everybody knows about Old Main.

This is the story, okay?

This is the marquee hunt, if you will.

Yeah.

Now, the police came to investigate, and they weren't going to do anything because they didn't want to scare everyone around.

But the workers are like, no, you know, something needs to be done about this.

We're going to tell everybody what actually happened because they wanted to blame it on like a heart attack or something.

So, they did find tracks of horses hoofs that were followed to the back door of a Congress.

So, Congress Street is a street, okay?

So, Congress Street Saloon, known for, they call them the low lives that congregated there, okay?

But no one was ever arrested or charged for the murder.

Now, obviously, this did not stop construction.

No.

So, it kept going.

And the building was eventually completed in 1891.

And it started as like the School of Agriculture.

And it housed universities, classrooms, offices, library, dorms, kitchen, a mess hall, and a photography darkroom.

There were 32 students and six faculty members to start it.

And it was called University Hall in the beginning.

Yeah.

32.

Now, we've got some original pictures from the Tucson Museum.

We're going to put up here the first construction.

And in 1930, the building was declared to be unsafe and abandoned.

Many years of neglect had damaged the wooden structure of the beams because they had left it without doing anything with it for a long time.

I guess termites got a hold of it.

So, in 1941, we know Pearl Harbor happened, right?

And the military basically essentially bought it, and they renovated it, and it became used for training military officers.

I think it was naval, actually.

Yeah, it was naval.

After some extensive remodeling with funding from the US.

War Department.

Which I always found interesting that they're training naval people in Arizona.

It is what it is, I guess.

Yeah, yeah.

In 2012, there was a project to restore and update Old Main with a new mechanical system, and they replaced plumbing, lighting, and electrical system.

They also restored the exterior of it and redid the veranda and everything, because it's got a huge veranda all the way around it.

Yeah, it's awesome.

And it now has a basically, I mean, students don't really take classes in there anymore, but there's a president's office is in there, there's a museum, public seminars, meeting spaces.

And like you said, when new students come to tour the college, that's where you meet.

It's like a surrogate admin building for black and white.

Now, so we're talking about multiple renovations through all this, right?

So every time they renovated this, reports of people seeing like a head and shoulders of a Mexican man floating up in the air in various rooms that were being worked on.

Each man later identified the ghost he had seen as that of Carlos Maldonado from a photo of Carlos taken at a Tucson social event in 1883.

Which is the picture that we have.

Since then, there have been multiple witnesses reported seeing his apparition.

The U of A regent and office clerk also saw him standing in a doorway.

So his apparition is seen.

Right.

Like we said, he's the one that they go to, well, that you go to Old Main for, right?

Yeah.

Carlos Maldonado.

Okay.

So we've got multiple pictures we took that we're going to post up here.

Now, they did add a fountain in the front of Old Main and from the main steps.

Okay.

And it's called the Alexander Berger Memorial Fountain.

It was dedicated on January 31st of 1920 to honor the 13 University of Arizona students who died in World War I.

Okay.

Yep.

And the fountain has 13 spouts for the 13 people who died.

Right.

And the gentleman who created it and basically put it together, one of his relatives is actually one of the 13.

The nephew.

So, we started our investigation of Old Main at the fountain now.

Talk about contamination.

Yeah.

Now, the only thing that's said about the fountain is of what?

That you told me this.

Yeah, that sometimes they'll come, and they'll see that the fountain somehow got drained.

And there would be, every once in a while, you'd pick up EVPs.

I don't know how, because that fountain is so loud.

Yeah.

That we, like Nicole said, we started it at the fountain.

And we pretty quickly gave it up, because it was just.

Yeah, we did get some stuff on the ghost tube.

Which was interesting for later.

Yep.

But yeah, as far as anything on the recorder, you might as well forget it.

It's just, it's water and wind.

Yep.

Water and wind.

It's like shh.

Yep.

And a different shh.

Yeah.

And then you hear our voice, you know.

Trying to talk over the top of it.

So yeah, there was going to be nothing there.

I don't know how they get EVPs, but yeah.

Yeah.

Some of the ghost tube stuff is we're going to insert that right here and then we'll talk about it.

Yeah, here we go.

Is there a van?

What?

I'm above.

You're above the van?

Are you in Old Main?

Came again.

That guy, Carlos, was supposed to kill them in the attic.

Speak in Spanish.

Is it you, Carlos Marlonado?

I want to know if you're here, Carlos.

I want to know if you're here, Carlos.

Prisoner.

You're a prisoner?

So, yeah.

Okay, so we'll bring these up again when we go to discuss that, but that's basically what we got.

And at the time, you know, everybody, like we said, focuses on Carlos.

We're like, okay, this is what he's telling us.

I'm up here, right?

And so we think, okay, it's time to go to the building.

It's time to go to Old Main.

So that's what we do.

You go up the stairs and we just kind of lean against it because it's locked.

We can't get in.

Right.

Once again, but I don't think it was necessarily needed this time.

No, not at all.

So we start, you know, basically go up the stairs to the right.

And we stood by a window there and just kind of leaned against the building.

And once again, we got background noise, right?

We've got students laughing.

We got people on skateboards, city.

There's a church bell.

Yeah, church bells, everything.

So recorder, I've listened to the recorder.

Nothing.

Nothing once again.

I mean, it's just there's too much contamination.

For all we know, there probably is a ton of stuff, but we'll never hear it.

There could have been, but yeah, there was no way to hear it.

Okay.

But on the ghost tube, we got a couple of things and there, you had some experiences.

Yeah.

And when we play the clip, you'll see it, but there was something messing with me.

Okay.

So we're going to play that right here.

No, we're not afraid of you.

We'd like to talk to you if you want to talk.

It's kind of your opportunity to make yourself known.

People say that...

Where would you like us to go to?

Where were we?

Okay, so if there's somebody that's not close, I want to talk.

Feel free to come to us.

Were you here for Homecoming?

Voices in the background.

Touched.

Touched.

You were touched by Homecoming?

Happy to see everybody here?

No way.

I got a weird, like, kind of flushed feeling there for a second.

Maybe they're trying to touch you.

Can you touch Logan?

Is there another way you can show us that you're here?

Okay.

I feel something on my left arm.

Yeah?

Mm-hmm.

Is your hair standing there?

I don't know.

Like how far up past your watch?

Just a little above my elbow.

Can you pull our tug on his shirt?

Praise.

Praising me?

Or do you want us to praise you?

Believe.

Believe?

We want to believe that you're here.

If you're here, go ahead and touch my shoulder.

Wow.

Big time.

Just like, she was.

Who are we speaking with?

It's going to be hard with all those voices back there.

You're standing on it.

It's a little cooler here than it is over here.

Here's Arm.

Yeah, like right there.

Is that where it was?

We don't have a temperature.

Yeah, look, right there.

That's weird.

I felt like it might have been above, but it actually feels more below.

I'm trying.

I know you're trying.

We appreciate it.

Thank you for trying.

You're welcome.

I'm not scared.

It's wild.

I know.

I wonder if there's something easier.

Um, I don't think there's anything easier for a dude that wouldn't cause you so much stress.

Whoa.

Did you see that?

I felt busy.

Okay.

Who is she?

Which one?

I thought there's two.

I'm Nicole.

This is Nicole, and behind the camera is my sister, Marcy.

We're here to talk to you.

Can you tell us your name?

You can speak in to these things sticking out really loud.

Or you can speak in to this like you have in whichever season.

Are you male or female?

I feel like that's female.

Do you want us to leave, or do you want us to hold?

I'm gonna be so mad and crush on you.

She's no threat to her sister.

Who do you want to go?

Why must you know?

Because you're the one telling us to leave.

You want all of us to leave?

Not very.

Okay.

Okay.

Okay, so do you wanna talk about your experience there a little bit?

Yeah, it just felt like this cold spot, and you guys felt it.

When I said it, it was...

And here's the thing.

I mean, it's October, but it is still...

When we first arrived, it was like a hundred and some degrees when we first arrived, and then it got a little bit...

We had a few cool days before we left, but when we're at the U of A, it's probably what, 90 some degrees?

Yeah, 80, 90, something like that.

I mean, we're sweating.

Oh, we're sweating.

It's hot.

So for it to get cooler in a spot, it was weird.

I will say it was weird.

I've never felt that before.

I always see that, you know, other investigators say that, and I see it obviously on the TV shows and stuff.

But Marcy felt it.

So it was like, yeah, I've never experienced that.

So that was a first for me.

It was very odd.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So we'll talk about a little bit more of these later, but you know, you don't know.

No, you don't know.

I mean, there's so many things that could be going on.

So we decide to move on to what the next spot.

So we go kind of around the corner.

This is a huge building.

And there's a Miranda all the way around it.

So we go around to the other side where there's a pair of double doors and like a little landing spot.

And this is where I think we got our main stuff.

This is where things kind of get tilted.

Now, recorder, listen to it.

Nothing too much.

I mean, we didn't get anything on the recorder for this entire investigation, which I was really sad about.

But there was just too much interference.

And if I did hear something, I would throw it out anyway, because it could have been something in the background that we just don't remember hearing.

Could have been a bird, could have been anything.

I mean, you're hearing distance of people shouting.

I mean, it's a college campus.

First of all, I'm just glad our recorder is that good to pick stuff up like that.

But man, it was just too much.

So this one was interesting.

It's very, very long and we're not going to put all of it on there, but we're going to kind of, to what we think could be related to something.

Yeah.

So we're going to play that right here and then we'll talk about it after.

Yep.

Here we go.

Somebody just come.

Okay, I understand.

Who are we speaking with?

I'm sure there's murders that have happened, but...

On the campus?

Yeah, but I don't know them off the top of my head, no.

But, uh, it's...

I think if there is something here...

It's very interesting.

It's very...

it's very intelligent.

Seems to be angry.

I can see where people might think that it's...

like, the Carlos, uh, storm.

Because Carlos would probably be angry and be murdered.

Yeah, but they said he was also a practical joker.

That's right.

They did say that.

And that's why they didn't know he was dead right away.

Because his back was faced to him.

And when they came around the side of the chair, the knife was in his throat.

If that's real.

If it's real.

It is sad.

It's a very sad story if it actually happened.

It's weird.

Is this Carlos?

Are you teaching Odin?

Struggle.

You're struggling?

It's been a hard time.

Weird.

Same area.

Back to the other side.

Right through there.

It's cool.

It's weird.

Kind of one way now.

Yeah, and it feels warm.

That's weird.

It's so hot.

Yeah.

And if you guys are curious and are watching this door, it's far from cold, so it's not like if you put your eye on it.

It's hot.

It's hot.

Um, well, it just kind of just dropped right off, you know?

Is there anything else you need to say to us?

We're going to be leaving this building, so if there's anything you want to tell us, please do so now.

The door?

The door's wooden, yeah.

And so is what we're standing on.

Not likely.

Not likely.

It is wood.

It is wood.

I feel like something...

I don't know if it's like psychosomatic.

What are you feeling?

Just, uh, I feel like my back's tight.

Did somebody hurt their back?

Injured.

Injured.

How were you injured?

How were you injured?

Tall.

You can't be talking about me.

Where you at?

What happened to me?

We don't know.

Yeah, we don't know.

Who is this?

Injured.

Well, that sounds like Carl Oaks' name, but I don't know.

Maybe he needs to speak in Spanish.

Carlos, es tu.

Okay, that's new.

Did you die here in this building?

Yeah.

So here's the significant that I'll talk about right now.

We'll wait for the other stuff.

One of the, we just turned the ghost box on.

Literally just turned it on.

And the first number that comes out is what?

32.

32.

And I was like, at the time, I was like...

Didn't mean anything, Jess.

Well, I thought I remembered that number for some reason when I was looking up stuff, but I couldn't at the time.

I wasn't, but if you remember at the beginning, I told you the first, when Old Main first opened, they had 32 students.

Just crazy.

And six teachers.

Yeah.

And I was like, whoa.

Like, I remember I'm like, you're not gonna believe this.

I know.

It's so weird.

I was in the other room and she was reviewing some of this audio and she's like, you can hear it throughout the whole house.

Oh my God.

Now, some of this is going to make sense later and I'll bring it back up then.

And so I don't really want to talk about it now.

But you know, a lot of this stuff being talked about is like someone hurt or, you know, and you always think, okay, we kept going back and forth as this Carlos we're talking to.

But it's just like at the time, I remember feeling like I feel like it's not because when every time you'd speak in Spanish, it was like, yeah, and then at the end, not necessary.

That was interesting.

Now, you don't need to talk to me in Spanish.

Now, my Spanish may not be the best, but I wasn't expecting that.

Uh huh.

And like trying to talk to you or trying to touch you.

I'm struggling with the door.

That was weird.

Kept saying, wooden, wooden.

And here's the thing, we're standing on this platform that is wooden.

It's like wooden slats that are painted.

Yep.

And you guys will see the picture of it.

Yeah.

I took pictures.

And then in like the, what happened to me, injured, and then you feeling something which is weird.

Yeah.

Now, let's put it this way.

I have a lot of ailments in my life.

Well, yeah.

I'm an old man of a certain age, and I've been in the military, and I've been hurt.

But the one thing that's always been rock solid for me is my back.

Yeah.

And I all of a sudden started getting this real bad back pain.

Really bad.

And I'm thinking, okay, I went back in my head with the Carlos thing.

I'm like, he got stabbed in the neck.

Could they have beat him up?

Beat him first.

But I'm like, he was sitting in a chair.

So I don't know how they, you know?

And so I'm like going through my head like, well, maybe, you know, I don't know, maybe it is.

Because that's all you think about when you hear these stories.

Right.

Okay.

Now, as we were leaving, we went around the other side too.

We didn't do any more investigating that way.

But as we're leaving, or no, we were coming back around to go back down the stairs, I noticed on the platform where we're standing, there's like a handprint.

Yeah.

And when I touched it, it has to be a recent handprint because when I put my hand down next to it and I kind of try to smudge it, it left my fingerprint.

So this is not something that was just like left behind, like a student came along just being dumb, you know, like running across the ground or something on their hands.

It had to be recent and we had been standing there for over a half hour.

We were there for a while.

And I don't remember Marcy ever putting her hand down there.

None of us did.

So it was weird.

And we've got a picture of that handprint here.

It's like, you can see at least four fingers.

Right.

And like the center of the palm.

It's weird.

It was really weird.

And it's a big hand.

It is big.

Yeah.

I don't know what to think about that.

Yeah.

Now, you know, we basically are done with the U of A for the day.

Okay.

So we decide to leave.

Pack up, get some EG's and head home.

Yeah, we did get some.

It was good.

It was so good.

It was good.

Now, we get home.

You know, this has been, we were there in October.

And since then, we've listened to all the EVPs, done all the stuff.

It's time to do research.

And so I'm like, okay.

There were things that stuck out to me in some of the things that came across the ghost stop, Ghost Tube app.

And so one of those things was the EVP from Chaste.

Right.

And to me, the first thing was, okay, this is a college campus.

People get killed.

Yeah, they do.

You know, I know that I had read, you know, there's a lot of men, especially, that come in their cars and try to abduct women on this college campus.

It happens a lot.

And so, I'm like, has this happened?

Because I felt like that was a specific word.

Chased.

And so, I'm like, okay, I'm going to, could not find one shred of a story.

No, there were tons of stories about people, like, stalking and stuff like that, trying to, but nothing like chasing into a building or doing anything like that.

I couldn't find anything.

I'm like, okay.

I'm thinking of other people getting hurt.

I mean, is somebody else, you know, died here?

I'm just going to, and I think I just searched, U of A killed.

Oh, jeez.

I think that's just what I put in for anything that could come up.

There's a morbid rabbit hole.

Yeah.

Okay.

So, the first thing we're going to talk about, which is, I couldn't, like, I don't remember hearing about it, but, you know, I live in Missouri.

Yeah.

And it had been well after I had left, too.

Yeah.

I had asked you, and you didn't know about it.

But, and this is what's weird, okay?

We were there in October, for most of the month of October.

Yeah.

Pretty much.

Yeah.

We were at the U of A on October, what, 20th?

20th.

Sunday, the 20th, the day after homecoming.

So this incident actually happened October 28th of 2002.

Okay.

And there was a nursing student, 41-year-old Robert Flores.

And he got some bad grades, I guess.

And he went into the College of Nursing building at the U of A, and he shot and killed three of his nursing professors, okay?

He killed Robin Rogers, who was 50, in her office on the second floor.

Then he went to the fourth floor classroom and killed Sharon McGaffick, who was 44, and Barbara Monroe, who was 45, in front of the students taking a midterm exam.

He let the students leave.

Then he turned the gun on himself and killed himself.

Yeah.

I mean, I've had some bad grades, but good lord.

Yeah, but, and this is a huge thing.

I mean, students witnessed this.

It was a massive thing.

And I was surprised I had never heard of this.

But this nursing, but I was like looking up, I read all the accounts of it, all the reports, all newspaper articles, nothing.

I mean, nothing was about chasing anyone.

They were all shot, you know, and killed.

So, it didn't really, any of it really relate to any of the stuff that we got.

And so I was like, okay, maybe this is not the thing that, that, you know, maybe we're getting some stuff on.

So I kept searching.

Well, yeah, here, it's just, I honestly, and, you know, I am not ever someone that's going to lie about something like this.

I am honestly kind of got teared up and this bothers me.

How crazy some of the things that we got.

And I am 150% convinced that we were never talking to Carlos.

No, we weren't.

Maldonado.

But possibly this man.

Yeah, and you know, they always say that when you investigate and you do these sort of things, that you don't always end up with the story that you went there originally for.

And boy were they.

Most of the time.

Yeah, most of the time.

And boy were they right here.

And I will, you know, promise, cross my heart, I had no idea about this.

There was no way for me to know anything about this.

And it's, all the things just line up so crazy.

So let's get into it because it just, yeah, blew my mind.

Okay, so we're there two years to the month that this happened.

And that was another thing that just kind of freaked me out a little bit.

Timing.

The timing.

Remember I said we were there on October 20th, 2024, day after homecoming.

Okay, this incident happened October 5th of 2022.

There was a professor called Thomas Mixner, I think is how you pronounce his last name.

Mixner or something like that, yeah.

He was 52 years old and he headed the Department of Hydrology and Atmospheric Sciences.

And his office and where he taught was in the John W.

Harsh Barger Building.

And I found a map, tried to look up where this building was in association to Old Main.

And I kind of like labeled where the buildings are.

They're very close.

There's only one building in between the two of them.

Yeah.

And if you know a lot of these campuses, the map looks like it's a long distance, but it's not that far.

It's like the tiny campus streets in between them.

You know, it makes it look like it's a vast difference, but we probably saw it or walked past it, and I just didn't even know.

Now, this poor guy, okay, there was a student named Derbysh, okay?

And he had been, I don't think he was still a student, but he had been causing a lot of problems for a while, and I don't wanna focus on this too much, but he had been threatening letters and stuff, and it was another case of this, like, I'm not doing good with my grades, and so I'm gonna blame you all for it and take you out.

And he'd been sending threatening emails, all stuff, and they tried to get help from the university and the police, all stuff, and nobody would do anything, okay?

Well, on this day, this guy entered the harsh barger building at the U of A shortly before 2 p.m.

And when I read this, and these are the words, word for word, that I typed in here, because when I read this, I was like, oh my god.

Because like I said, I was just looking for kills or murders on the campus.

And when I read this sentence, I was like, oh my god.

And that's what made me really tune in and start looking more at it.

This is from the prosecutor in the trial.

He said, he chased Mexner down a hallway in the building and into a classroom.

Dervish emptied his magazine, his gun, shooting at Mexner 11 times.

Four of the bullets in the back.

And in case you forgot, Logan had back pain while we were standing on the port, you know, on the veranda.

Yep.

Something I never have.

And Mexner's last words to this guy were, I knew you were going to do this.

Geez.

Dervish ran out of the building and he fled.

This is the other thing.

Driving a Pontiac van he had been living in.

Now, when we were standing by the fountain, that was a word that came across, because if you remember, we were like, where's the van?

And we were looking all around, the streets there close to U of A, like is there a van park somewhere?

And we didn't see one.

Yeah.

So that's three things that we got on there.

It's just in that one paragraph that I read.

And that's why I was so like, oh my God, he chased him down a hallway, shot in the back driving a van.

And then things just start to kind of tumbling together.

Mm-hmm, yeah, anyway, I mean, obviously, the entire community was devastated.

Sure.

You know, there were students and they, lots of people had lots of wonderful things to say about him.

Right.

Now, last year, so to, well, we're in 2025, so this would be 2023.

Right.

I'm still in 2024 in my head.

It's okay, we all are.

In 2023, at Homecoming, they did a memorial for Dr.

Thomas Mixner at Old Main.

There you go.

They held a candlelight vigil for him to honor his life.

And we've got a picture, like I took of the website of them, you know, on the steps with the candles and stuff.

They honored his life.

Now, they did have another one, not at Old Main this year, on October 4th of 2024.

What?

Just a couple of weeks before we were there.

We had no idea.

I mean, it's uncanny, the timing of all this.

Yeah, had no idea.

Now, they had the remembrance in 2024 at, I think, the St.

Thomas Newman Center, which is far away from Old Main, but they're continuing to do it because he made such an impact.

And we're going to include some things here on the screen of colleagues and sister, and what they said about him.

And he was a remarkable man.

He's a lovely guy.

Yeah, he focused on water, stuff for the desert, which is interesting that we got stuff by a fountain too.

I thought that was really super interesting.

It's just crazy the way this stuff added up.

There was one I wanted to read here, or a couple actually, one was by his sister that she had to say about him.

She said, Thomas developed an amazing life attitude as a four time cancer survivor.

He was never bitter, only better for it.

He realized that every day should be lived well.

And then one of his colleagues said he knew exactly who he was and what he wanted to do with his life.

You know, you hear that cancer survivor just to be taken out by that dipshit.

Now, the guy did get sentenced and everything.

And the university, I think, had to pay the family because they didn't do anything about this guy.

And all the professors were all scared and they had changed the codes on the doors and everything to keep this guy out.

He got in and they did call campus police.

They didn't get there in time and he killed him.

It's just amazing to me that we got that stuff.

I know.

And that's the thing.

It was from a ghost tube app.

It was.

Just a few words across the screen.

Obviously, not everything we got probably relates to this guy.

But I don't know.

It's just a feeling in the gut that he was trying to tell us.

Because some of the other, when I went back, and we can play them for you, if I can find them here.

I started looking over them and I went back and listened to them after I discovered the story about this guy.

And especially that last one that we did.

Chased.

Judged.

Yeah, that was a big one.

Then, despicable, that was one that kind of got me too.

And then injured, right after your back was hurting, and it said injured.

It was weird.

And tall.

That guy was really tall that killed him.

What happened to me?

And when you started speaking Spanish after that, because we thought we were talking to Carlos, not necessary.

And I commented on it exactly.

And then the very last thing that we got was dying.

Dying.

Yeah, that's rough.

So, I mean, I don't know.

Yeah, I mean, guys.

Is it Thomas reaching out?

I don't know.

I wish I would have known about it at the time while we were still there.

And that's kind of the game you play a little bit when you do research.

You know, there's some people that say, well, you just go into it, you know, by the seat of your pants.

But then if we would have known, maybe we wouldn't have made, you know, you don't know.

So you never know.

But it is true when you do this sort of thing, you have to always be conscious of the fact that just because you're going in there for one thing does not necessarily mean that's what you're going to get.

I just hate we wasted so much time trying to talk to Carlos because clearly that's not who was trying to talk to us.

And we kept thinking it was something other than what could we have gotten if we were able to focus on him.

But the story is not over.

No.

We'll definitely be back there at some point.

And if you guys are in the area and you want to do this, please be respectful, though.

Be respectful.

Don't do the provoking weird stuff that you see all over TV because you've got to remember they're doing that for entertainment to get watches, right?

Yeah.

These are people.

These are people that people loved, you know, that were good people.

Don't go in there and, you know, be goofy and, I mean, think about it.

You got to think about as if a real human being were standing right in front of you.

Don't do something that you wouldn't do in the presence of someone.

Right.

Just because you can't see them.

For sure.

Because most likely they're there watching you, you know.

Yeah.

So, well, great.

Like at the time, it didn't feel like we probably would have gotten anything.

But like afterwards, that's where you really find stuff is like after when you do the research and you look at the history.

History is so important in this stuff.

It is.

It's very important because it's not about the screams and the scratches and the what you see all over TV.

Or the demonic things.

Yeah.

I mean, most of the time, it's not that it's very under the surface.

You've got to dig to find it.

And these people were people.

They lived and they died.

Guys, yeah, tell us what you think.

You know, again, ITC apps, they're kind of here and there.

Some people swear by them.

Some people say they're garbage.

I don't think they're garbage.

I don't.

I think you do get a lot of just random stuff sometimes.

But it may be significant.

We're just not finding the connection to it.

You don't know how many things are trying to talk to you at once.

The big thing is they say that it's influenced by what we talk about.

But what we got, we need to talk about any of that stuff.

So it is super, super interesting.

But yeah, that's what we found.

There's going to be more of this.

Yeah, there's more stuff in Arizona.

Speaking of which, guys, look, right now, at current time, there's something horrible happening in Los Angeles.

And I do want to take a moment to talk about it.

At the beginning, I joked around a little bit about Arizona, Arizona State.

Listen, you're from Arizona, you're always going to be great with me.

But we need to bond together for the people out in Los Angeles.

There's just some horrific things happening with the fires.

If you're watching this years from now, I'm sure there's history written all about it.

But right now, those people need help.

So if you have the means in which to do, go to Red Cross and we'll put the link here, or we'll put it at least on the screen where you can go and donate.

But give those folks some help.

Well said.

All right, guys.

Well, that ends today's podcast.

Yeah.

We will see you next week.

Talk to you next week.

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Until next time, stay curious and keep exploring the unexplained.